Rebranding a Brand & Web Design Business

Episode Transcript:

[Designing Growth introduction plays]

 [00:00:00] Sam Chlebowski: Happy Thursday, everybody. And more importantly, happy new year.

[00:00:15] In this week’s episode, we have a really great guest joining us, Andi Dunn from Honey Creative. Honey Creative is a design agency that started as a one woman show in 2015 to deliver. Good design to good businesses and honey Creative is now a honey hive, a team of four powerhouse women that are incredibly talented and all around good ass people.

[00:00:36] Honey Creative focuses on channeling their individual expertise into providing high quality, robust offerings while still keeping an intimate experience with every client they work with, brand positioning, new website design, and all of the other stuff that is going to get your brand, your business, or your nonprofit in front of more people.

[00:00:52] So, Andi, how you doing?

[00:00:53] Andi Dunn: I’m doing well. Thank you so much, Sam, for uh, having me. I’m really excited. That was such a great intro. Usually I have to manage the elevator pitch, so that was beautiful. Thank you.

[00:01:02] Sam Chlebowski: Thank you. It is something I’ve had a little bit of practice on by now

[00:01:06] Before I had this podcast, I used to, in a previous business, do like live webinars with a guest, and I was always scrambling last minute because nobody would send me their bio information. So I’d go and create that by using my internet sleuthing abilities.

[00:01:19] So I’ve gotten pretty good at stitching together, things like that, that I can find on the internet. thank you for the kind words.

[00:01:24] Andi Dunn: Yeah, that was fantastic.

[00:01:26] Sam Chlebowski: So to start off the episode here, I just wanna dig into your expertise and your story a little bit more. Something I asked to a lot of guests on this pod because it’s really interesting for me, and I think it’s really helpful for other people listening to this show, from launching your design business to where you are now, what did that process look like? Could you give me a sort of 10,000 foot view of how you got to where you are now?

[00:01:47] Andi Dunn: I don’t think we have quite enough time to go full blown detail into everything, but as far as kind of a bird’s eye perspective of how I came to start Honey and really get more involved with, with design as a business. . I began my career as a designer when I worked for the University of Kentucky.

[00:02:06] I was a part of, um, a team that worked for the Arts and sciences department, which was really nice. So we had the opportunity to create in a I’ll say low stress environment. So we were just developing out assets for professors and, you know, whatever course they were featuring that, season.

[00:02:22] And so we were actually called the hives. So me and two teammates at the time kind of set out. We had been having conversations for a while about, you know, I think, we could absolutely do this ourselves. Let’s give it a shot. So, In thinking through naming, we thought, well, what’s a product of the Hive and honey?

[00:02:39] So that’s kind of where the name started off. But even before that, I’ve had a, a big interest actually in visual art. So I really love hand illustration as well. So that’s a big part of what we provide clients in this moment. I honestly didn’t really think that I would be a graphic designer. I thought that I would do more traditional visual art, drawing, painting, that sort of thing, but, really, coming to understand what that pressure would look like on a day-to-day basis.

[00:03:04] I didn’t want to kind of harp, my, creativity. So graphic design felt like a natural evolution. So I actually don’t have a degree in design, which people are typically surprised about, but my university didn’t offer it. , but I do have, you know, kind of a general communications or marketing focus, and then minors in philosophy in Italian, which are not very useful at all.

[00:03:26] But, I tell people that college was a great experience and I wouldn’t take that away, even though I don’t necessarily use my degree day-to-day. So that’s kind of my personal background and interest in how I, I came to own.

[00:03:38] Sam Chlebowski: Very cool, and it’s something interesting for me to hear. I’m kind of saying to myself in the back of my head, I majored in political science and advertising, so the advertising thing, That kind of circled back around, it definitely got shifted into doing advertising at a big agency versus doing it for a startup, which is a very different thing than like working at an advertising firm.

[00:03:59] But there’s still pieces of that in there and I always find that really interesting. So you had been working with some of the people you were working with in college, I believe you said

[00:04:08] You all started Honey Creative.

[00:04:10] Andi Dunn: Right. Yeah. So they ended up leaving shortly after, um, between six months and 12 months into officially being an llc. It was just, A combination of reasons. You know, like o owning a business is really hard, , and there’s a, a challenge associated with it and I certainly don’t hold that against them at all.

[00:04:29] And you know, I think one went on to, to continue education and the other one went on for more of like a, a regular salaried position with, predictable income , if you’ll, so, we started out as, uh, a partnership and. It. was just me for quite some time. And then within the last probably two to three years, I started to expand the team a little bit more.

[00:04:49] Sam Chlebowski: And especially right outta school to be launching your business, trying to figure everything out, and then you lose some partners along the way. That had to be really challenging

[00:04:58] Andi Dunn: Oh, it was terrifying. . one of them was the web developer for the team, and he actually left in the middle of a project, so I kind of had to. manage that client relationship and try to salvage the project as a whole. that was very stressful. And at the time, I think I just viewed it as the services that they were providing and how that would, create a gap or a hole in the way that we were trying to present honey at the time.

[00:05:21] But in hindsight, I really, do think it was more of the relationship side of it. Like I. Was coming into it with a team, you know, like misery loves company. So it was nice to have people to commiserate with and, and kind of talk through some of the harder times, or even just brainstorming pricing or contracts.

[00:05:37] The things that I felt were really closed off and there wasn’t a lot of information out there at the time. So, I mean, this was almost 10 years ago, so, it still is relatively gatekeeper, but I think that there are a lot of really great resources nowadays versus when, you know, we were just trying to figure it out as we go.

[00:05:53] Sam Chlebowski: and It’s so impressive that you’ve been able to stick with it for 10 years now. I mean, what is that statistic like?

[00:05:58] Less than five percent of businesses make it past that 10 year mark.

[00:06:02] Andi Dunn: Right. Yeah. So I mean, officially we’re about seven and a half years, but personally I’ve been doing design for, for over a decade. honestly forget about that all the time. certain days it feels like it was yesterday. Other days it feels like it’s been, you know, 20 years.

[00:06:16] So it just depends on, on when you would ask me. kind of feels like a time warp. The first few years, and then I tell my clients this all the time. I think there’s this pressure, it’s like starting college. there’s this assumption that you have to. Choose your major. You have to decide on what you wanna do for the rest of your life.

[00:06:32] But like your 18 year olds who don’t know what the hell they’re doing, you know, . So it’s overwhelming. There’s a lot of options. I call it like the toothpaste problem. You go down a toothpaste aisle and there’s like a million different choices, but they all kind of do the same thing. And so starting out your business in those first early years is very much the.

[00:06:50] you’re trying to figure out a lot of the actual business strategy while still building a brand, which in my opinion are two very different things. And so to place a lot of pressure on having it all together and, putting across this appearance like you, you know exactly what you’re doing. I have always been under the impression that honesty and transparency of both your shortcomings and your expertise are just as I.

[00:07:13] Sam Chlebowski: I couldn’t agree more. Something that was taught to me by my mentor and now co-founder. Under promise overdeliver, and that’s something that’s been drilled into me from firsthand experience in seeing how effective that is. Honesty, transparency, setting expectations are so important in business.

[00:07:31] Andi Dunn: Right, exactly. Because then people are really surprised and they’re like, wow, I think there’s some old adage that’s like, the only person that can set expectations is yourself. you have an opportunity to either overperform or underdeliver, and that’s kind of your decision.

[00:07:47] So, . I really try to encourage that, especially early on in a relationship with a client and with my team members. You know, like I, I’m not over here faking being a leader that I don’t know how to be. I, I’m very honest with them about like, Hey, this is really scary and . I don’t know what to do, but I’m tapping in to you guys and, your experiences to help

[00:08:06] collectively make a decision or, creatively come up with the solution or ideas for a particular.

[00:08:12] Sam Chlebowski: Switching gears a little bit. I know you just did a website redesign for your own business along with a brand redesign. What was that process like and how did you decide that it was time to redesign and rebrand? Honey Creative.

[00:08:26] Andi Dunn: Oh my gosh. that process was grueling. I’m not gonna lie, , we’re our own worst critics as designers, I think. it is hard to be satisfied and to feel satisfied with your own work, with client work, as long as they’re happy and we’ve got at a goal that they’re content with that success.

[00:08:42] But when it comes to your own work and deciding for yourselves, number one, it’s hard to prioritize. Like it’s nearly, IM. To not place client work over your own because you know, that’s what’s paying the bills. So it took a lot longer than I think anyone on the team really thought. But we tried to go at the process at a pace that felt reasonable and that left us still feeling inspired.

[00:09:05] You know, you can get burnout just as much from client work as you can from personal, kind of internal work as well. We did some extensive kind of audience analysis. We revisited who we actually wanted to work with because up until that point, it had just been me calling the shots and now I had to consider, who collectively do we really value?

[00:09:23] Instead of the projects rolling in and getting overly excited about, oh man, I would love to design for a coffee shop or a candle company. Like in my opinion, I think the people that you work with are much. informative of your day to day and, and kind of how you operate versus like a really exciting project because if the people behind your email are crappy or you know, they aren’t great to work with that says a lot more.

[00:09:46] in any case, we kind of established who we wanted to work with. We went through red and green flags of what that really looks like. And then from there we really refined a lot of the copy to articulate and reflect that, you know, it wasn’t just me. and it’s not just me doing a lot of the day-to-day work.

[00:10:01] And then, we refine some of our services just post pandemic, understanding that a lot of people, aren’t ready to make, uh, a massive tens of thousand solid dollars of, of investment. And so pivoting around what accessible offerings could look like for our clients was also a big priority with the, Rev.

[00:10:19] Sam Chlebowski: Along the lines of copy. One of the things that I really love about your new website is what you’ve chosen to feature on your about page. I really love this page. It’s like one of the best about pages I’ve ever seen.

[00:10:31] and I’ll link this in the show notes, but one of the sections I really love that just totally stand out to me is the what makes us different Section, where it calls out clarity and confidence, long-term relationships and accessible design practices.

[00:10:45] That was just awesome. It perfectly encapsulates what I already perceive that you do and I think communicates really. Clearly to your clients, who you are and what you stand for. Even just based on our couple of conversations together, I can see how that really hits the nail

[00:10:59] in the head. It’s really, really cool.

[00:11:01] Andi Dunn: Thank you. It, it’s one of those things where we really had to revisit what clients actually gave a crap about. You know, like they really want to know that they have someone as a team member. of course, the deliverables are important, but that’s scope of work. That’s not a relationship that you’re building.

[00:11:16] That’s not, as I’ve mentioned, that’s not someone who’s. In the thick of it on a day to day. So we really try to feature aspects that, truly do make us unique and, and things that we have heard, not just us internally kind of piping up ourselves, but that clients specifically have mentioned is a huge differentiator cuz so many, of our clients come to us either after working with a designer or hack it themselves and, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with either of those.

[00:11:42] at a certain point I think that they come to realize like, all right, it’s time to level up. And as you sort of evolve into a bigger business or you go to reach bigger goals, you kind of need, I’m not even gonna say a bigger team, cuz we’re certainly not, but someone that feels like is on your team.

[00:11:57] Sam Chlebowski: I totally love the way that you think about this, and those relationships are so important, at least in my opinion, and it sounds like you would agree. I can’t even put into words how important it is. Okay. Listening to your clients in a really deep way and making sure that everything you do is focused on what your clients are saying and what you know future clients are expecting.

[00:12:18] That goes from the copy on your website to the services that you provided. I know you had mentioned that you refactored some things for the website after the pandemic and kind of had a shift in view of the way that you approach the marketing of your own business. when we talk about process with clients, how do you give them that same sense of clarity, that same sense of understanding that you are promoting, in

[00:12:38] your marketing

[00:12:39] Andi Dunn: There’s a difference between being an expert and being superior. we are certainly experts at what we do. You know, we. We really champion efficiency. That’s something that we’re really proud of. But I never want our relationship to feel like you don’t know what you’re doing, so let us help you.

[00:12:54] It should be like, just as it says, like let’s, let’s get you some clarity and some confidence to show up in the way that you really see yourself as an entrepreneur or as a non-profit leader.

[00:13:04] Sam Chlebowski: What are some of the things that you do within your process of working with clients that these values also flow into? For example, how do you work with clients? What’s your system for that? To make sure that at every step of the way clients are informed, they have a say in what you’re doing, what’s your process for that?

[00:13:20] Andi Dunn: There are a couple of things that we’ve really started to implement and, and find over the years, namely, I would say at onboarding, we have an honest conversation about. , their communication preferences. How do they give feedback best? Whether that’s in written form, I’m the type of person that needs pen and paper and give me, you know, some time to sit in a dark room and review something.

[00:13:43] Or do you wanna talk through it? Do you prefer reviewing things or reviewing our designs over Zoom and we can chat through it together or, You know, different, different points of contact as well. So we try to have those conversations that kick off so that way it’s truly reflective of the way that they want to work, not just them meshing with how we work.

[00:14:04] And then, um, secondly, especially for our larger branding projects, we conduct kind of an audience analysis for, established clients. So this looks like sending out some surveys. individuals that, currently occupy their audience. And, and this really helps to inform our creative process and help bridge the gap between us getting to know them and us getting to know how they operate because it’s, it’s not coming from them.

[00:14:28] and also just as a side note, this really helps avoid any combating, once we get into the design phase, because we can. Explicitly so and so from the survey or you know, the general receptivity of X, Y, or Z was shown in the survey. So we can kind of rely on those responses instead of it just feeling like arbitrary decisions that we’ve made behind the curtain.

[00:14:52] So that’s another thing. And then lastly I would say is just, transparency with deliverables. So we communicate a 48 hour turnaround time or response time. So if a client emails us, it doesn’t sit in our inbox for a week at a time. That’s something that I find personal grievances with when trying to reach out to just other professionals.

[00:15:10] It’s just annoying. Um, of course there are exceptions, you know, holidays, out of town, vacation, whatever. But, um, and then kind of corresponding with that, we, we create a shared Google calendar so you know exactly what phase we’re in, you know, when deliverables are gonna be due and we’re, we stick to that pretty closely.

[00:15:28] Sam Chlebowski: I love the idea of the shared Google Calendar view. That’s a really interesting way to organize that and something I haven’t heard of. . It also excites me because I know that there is importance with one of the features that we’ve been building into motion.io where clients have a clear visual timeline of a project they know exactly what stage of the project they’re in, what might be required of them, and what you are currently working on, It’s something that. Building into motion.io that we haven’t seen in any of the other project management tools where you can take a project timeline and all of the individual tasks and things you or your team are working on internally have that automatically populate a view for your client in a super easy to understand way, and you don’t have to worry about utilizing two separate tools. Updating things in two separate places, so it was cool to hear about that and I’m excited to have you test out Motion.io.

[00:16:24] Andi Dunn: Yeah. It’s, it’s kind of a method of accountability. for us, you know, for, for me kind of managing the project, but also for the clients. There should never be a point in time during the project where they’re wondering what we’re doing.

[00:16:37] I know that this is a huge trust exercise, especially when we’re talking about a larger investment, not just in money, but in time. , you’re building a relationship with someone. And I would hate for that to go south eight weeks into a project or 10 weeks into a project because you feel like you can’t trust someone or you feel like you don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes.

[00:16:55] So all of that is just in an effort to really bridge the gap with the relationship. But will, I mean, you know, some of ’em live and breathe by it, looking forward to the dates. Others, you know, they don’t even open it. It just kind of depends on the type of.

[00:17:09] Sam Chlebowski: I wanted to switch gears a little bit and talk about sales and marketing. What are you currently doing for marketing and who runs this sort of sales and marketing processes for honey creative?

[00:17:20] Andi Dunn: Yeah, so, it’s kind of ebbed and flowed and we honestly go through kind of seasonal, times as well, I think. Something that social media has done a really poor job at, I would say, is, feeling like every creative or every entrepreneur across the board has to be in this constant sales mode of you need to be acquiring new clients 24 7, which.

[00:17:41] that’s really not what traditional marketing is about. You know, like I’m absolutely advocating for content that feels approachable and, feels comfortable for you to, produce, but also like there are just times when we’re do, when we’re too busy to make that a priority. So, as far as our approach, I will say most of our clientele comes from referral.

[00:18:01] obviously knowing that relationships are really important to us, they naturally kind of spread the good news, if you will, about, working with us and, that is both good and bad. Like, it’s fantastic because people are, chatting about us and they really believe in us, but it also tends to breed a lot of the same work.

[00:18:16] So we’ve recently, I would say within the last 18 months or so, started to dive deeper into seo blog writing, I have a presence on, TikTok, and of course we have an Instagram and less on Facebook, but it’s there. , you know, more just to have it. So obviously social media channels aren’t going anywhere and. I kind of use TikTok more as an exploration to find a community for me as a business owner and less of, client acquisition. I don’t really wanna put any stress on that. There have been a couple of inquiries that come from it and, and kind of content partnerships as well, which is fantastic.

[00:18:50] But I didn’t set out to get thousands of followers, even though that’s kind of happened unknowingly, . I just wanted a space to feel weird and get, comfortable. not putting any pressure on it. So we do have a lot of priorities in the new year to do more aggressive kind of Google ads campaign that are more targeted and strategic.

[00:19:07] But for right now, it adds and flows. It changes throughout the year.

[00:19:11] Sam Chlebowski: When you mentioned the seasonality of your business and being aware of it, that’s something that hit a particular nerve with me

[00:19:17] Andi Dunn: I would say we certainly have. Times. We do a lot of work in partnerships with, nonprofit organizations. Nonprofit. We do some academic stuff just with my relationship with the university still. And I would say their calendar year looks very different to the average business owner, which the average business owner is absolutely what you described, where they’re like, January, let’s go resolutions, hitting all the things, and they really start to prioritize and.

[00:19:45] You know, like existential crisis type stuff where they’re ready to rebrand or they’re ready to prioritize, and the excitement of the new year has really kicked in versus I would say in the nonprofit world, January for us is very dead and very quiet, versus the end of the year, it’s like sheer chaos.

[00:20:02] Everyone’s trying to get out end of year giving campaign stuff, you know, impact. So right now, I would say like October, November is pretty hectic, but this year is actually the first year, that like as, an agency, we’re not accepting any branding clients in the month of December, which is very scary.

[00:20:20] Like, it’s, it’s hard to tell people yes, but not right now. but that’s a huge goal that I’ve, I’ve really wanted to do for some time, you know, it’s funny, I, I haven’t really ever worked in corporate America, or, I mean, obviously the, the schedule that I had prior to owning honey was very resemblant of a nine to five, and that was pretty standard.

[00:20:40] But I don’t think that we give ourselves enough grace when creating our own schedule. And if you don’t wanna work the entire month of December, you don’t have to you know, like if you want to end your work day at two o’clock, you don’t have to. So, I am giving myself permission to kind of cool things off a little bit.

[00:20:56] And that’s not to say we’re, we’re gonna kind of take it as an internal month. And really strategize for January just so that we can kind of be prepared. But it’s the holidays, you know, , like, as you said, it’s kind of a wash. It’s always been a wash, no one’s very quick to respond, especially around Christmas in particular.

[00:21:14] So, yeah, I, I think it’s, it’s a matter of working with clients and their seasonality and their kind of calendar year, but also giving myself permission to say, Hey, you know what, this is how we want to operate and how I wanted to create a business that reflects my personal values and not working myself into the ground because it is so easy.

[00:21:32] I don’t know if you feel the same way, but like, because you’re so passionate about it, I’m sure in a startup, like you just wanna work around the clock and it’s easy to slip into the 7:00 PM the 8:00 PM working time clock, and then. You wonder why come Friday you’re exhausted, ? Well, it’s because you kind of let boundaries eek out.

[00:21:50] Long story, longer – It’s a combination of working with our clients, but also putting our foot down and, and really prioritizing internal operations too.

[00:21:59] Sam Chlebowski: I could not agree more. As a business owner, as somebody who is working in a small business, I’ve learned firsthand. It is so easy to say, oh, just one more thing, or just two more. And then those two more things can quickly stretch into the wee hours of the morning. And I also love the intentional approach to you saying, okay, we’re not accepting new clients through December.

[00:22:21] because we want to give ourselves a break. I, can totally appreciate how hard that is because it’s, always hard to turn away business. But I do love your approach because everybody needs a break sometimes, and when you’re able to build up this wait list, you’re able to get through that.

[00:22:35] Andi Dunn: Right. we’ll see. I’ll let you know how it goes. if come mid-December, I’m freaking out then. Then I’ll follow up.

[00:22:42] Sam Chlebowski: Oh yeah. I mean, I’m sure you guys are just fine. You’re very successful doing all of the right things, but we’ll have you back on for a follow up episode if you’d like to when that time comes.

[00:22:53] Andi Dunn:  Yeah and you know, I, I really used to be, So cautious and very aware of kind of the, the leads that are coming in. And I think now it’s not necessarily that I stress any less about it, it’s just

[00:23:08] my motivation for stressing about it is through caring and not overwhelmed to where I feel like I can’t make a decision or I can’t do anything because that’s the only thing that I’m focused on.

[00:23:19] Sam Chlebowski: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , what’s your process for managing leads? Are you using a crm? How are they coming in through your website?

[00:23:25] Andi Dunn: Yeah. So, so they, they fill out a contact form, right? Pretty standard through the website, or if it’s a referral, they’ll send a direct email and kind of cc the, the person that referred them. And then

[00:23:36] I do like to have an initial conversation, a consult call with you will, and mostly That’s To hear what their goals are, but also.

[00:23:43] To see if there’s a connection like that to me is, is much more valuable than, you know, the, the potential income or the project itself or what have you. I want them to feel good about it and, and usually being face-to-face in a Zoom or even over the phone, can help provide a lot of that context versus just reading in an email and saying, Nope, or, yep.

[00:24:02] I’ve accepted projects that I was kind of surprised by after having a face-to. and I’ve declined projects that I was surprised by because of the face-to-face. There’s really not a, a math or science behind it. I would probably fail if it were it’s kind of a, a gut feeling or a gut instinct.

[00:24:17] Sam Chlebowski: And I think for design businesses it’s especially important to screen your clients. And this is something that has come up on a couple conversations I’ve had recently because clients who you don’t screen that aren’t a good fit can be a huge time suck within your business.

[00:24:32] then again, it can be really uncomfortable, at least at first to have to turn down business. But you gotta see the forest from the trees and know that in the long. It is what’s best to help your growth and help you all succeed. Now, people who are a good fit, you should be working to get in front of as many of those ideal types of clients as you can.

[00:24:52] And I know you mentioned some strategies for that, that you are using, that you’re looking to deploy in the new year. But if somebody’s not a good fit, it’s nobody’s fault. Why try and fit a square peg into a round hole with somebody that is not going to fit your process just because you want some revenue from that client?

[00:25:11] I don’t think that’s an optimal way to run a business, and frankly, it’s just not good for anybody.

[00:25:15] Andi Dunn: Right. Exactly. I’ve definitely been burned by the,

[00:25:19] allure. Sexiness of, of

[00:25:21] either a project or just, you know, the,

[00:25:23] the straight up income. there’s always that to keep in mind, but

[00:25:25] in those times, like I, I had inclinations, like I knew that it wasn’t gonna be a good fit. And then, you know, when it kind of hit the fan and those scenarios have been very few and far between.

[00:25:35] But I always go back and think, man, like there were so, so many red flags, Andy, like, what , what were you doing? What were you thinking? Like you should have known.

[00:25:43] Sam Chlebowski: So before we sign off here, I just have a couple of more questions that I want to ask. One fun one, and then one more work related one. So for the first one, outside of work, what are you passionate about?

[00:25:54] Andi Dunn: I’ve actually been a personal trainer slash fitness instructor longer than I’ve been a designer, which is funny. So, I’ve been in the fitness space for 13 years now. super passionate about that. I still actually do it to this day. I, I just taught a class this morning.

[00:26:10] It just, Because, you know, I, I, we’re all a remote team, so I, you know, I tend to sit behind my computer most of the day in a very stationary position. So teaching class helps me, like, get in front of actual people and have some social skills still intact. so that’s something that I’ve, I’ve always been passionate and it’s very complimentary to what I do.

[00:26:29] It’s almost like a moving meditation. and prioritizing that I think makes me a better creative. So they’re very different spaces, but I think they share a lot of similarities. I love to hike. I’ve got two dogs, so, you know, we, we try to get outside quite a bit. We take daily walks, you know, that’s again, like more of the, the moving meditation type idea.

[00:26:47] I love to read. I always have kind of annual reading goals Yeah, I like to cook and bake a lot. So pretty standard stuff. I don’t know if there’s anything like, you know, non-traditional as far as the hobby is concerned, but, but yeah.

[00:27:01] Sam Chlebowski: And then finally for the business. What’s new? What’s exciting? What are you working on at Honey Creative that listeners should

[00:27:08] know about?

[00:27:08] Andi Dunn: Yeah. So right now we’re actually in the works or in the process of creating, we call it a resource library internally, so it’s called waggle and. Waggle is actually a dance that beads do to communicate when they found a really great source of nectar. So that’s where the name comes from.

[00:27:24] It’s all very bee related . and really this is just, not anything that we’re trying to get rich quick on or, you know, create just another course for someone to have to go through. It really is to serve the clients that maybe are, just outside of our budget. are relatively new in their business.

[00:27:41] So this is something that we’ll kind of touch on a lot of, uh, the bigger picture stuff. So some ideas around brain strategy, like the, the basics of design for people that are using Canva, either independently on their own or as a team just trying to make it work and accessibility practices. So we’re really trying to advocate, um, for, for all of our clients to take advantage.

[00:28:03] Cuz you know, in the world of design, with more tools like Canva, it’s ever important that clients feel empowered and that they know how to use it and aren’t, you know, embarrassed or,

[00:28:12] that’s something like, oh my stuff is all over

[00:28:14] the place. Like, I don’t like it. So trying to encourage them and feel like they can take control of themselves cuz

[00:28:20] I never want clients to feel like we’re just holding all the keys to the castle. Like they should really feel like they can do, maybe not do exactly what we do , because then that would put us out of, some business, but they feel like they can take ownership of, of what their brand is and who it will become.

[00:28:34] Sam Chlebowski: Absolutely incredible initiative, and I had. Out waggle before this call. It’s chock full of a ton of knowledge and also super, super affordable. I was really impressed.

[00:28:45] Andi Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean that, Like I said, it’s not anything that we’re gonna be pricing ourselves out of, but the real goal was just trying to make. Information and knowledge more ready for clients that aren’t necessarily ready to take the next step with us.

[00:28:58] Sam Chlebowski: I also wanted to mention that I may be the one person who you’ll talk to that understands the waggle reference.

[00:29:05] Growing up at my parents’ house in Pennsylvania, my brother, he you know, lives in Vermont. He does all this crazy farming and stuff, but he was raising bees, uh, at our house. So I learned a lot about bees – fascinating creatures. Apparently they are the only animal that has a system of measurement. I don’t know if you know this as well, but bees, when they are sizing up a new hive, they connect each other from end to end and basically measure the length of the space that they’re in to make sure that the hive can fit.

[00:29:32] Andi Dunn: Wow. That’s cool.

[00:29:34] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah, absolutely fascinating creatures and I also love the

[00:29:38] honey, but shout out Pete for teaching me about bees.

[00:29:41] Andi Dunn: Yep. Yep. we’re all about the puns. And that’s actually like we mentioned that as a, a big green flag for when a client willingly uses a, bee or a honey pun cuz that’s so much of our ethos. we include, a really, really corny dad joke at the end of all of our email newsletters. So that’s something that, you know, like keeping it lighthearted.

[00:29:58] We never wanna take ourselves too seriously.

[00:30:00] Sam Chlebowski: I love it. I love it. So, Andy, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your time, your expertise and your story. Really, really appreciate it. We’ll put links to Andy’s website, Honey creative’s social channels, as well as the waggle resource center as links in the show notes for this episode.

[00:30:17] Until then, this has been another great episode of designing growth. Take care of everybody and talk to you soon.