Sam speaks with Krista Olynyk. Krista’s business, KJ & Co, helps wedding and event planners build better systems, streamline processes, and ultimately make more money without sacrificing their time with family and friends. Krista explains why client experience is such a crucial aspect of a successful wedding & event planning business and shares her tips for ways business owners can improve.
Resources from the episode:
[00:00:00] Intro Music Plays
[00:00:09] Sam Chlebowski: Happy Thursday, everybody, and welcome back to Designing Growth. Sam Chlebowski here, Co-founder of Motion.io and host of this podcast joining you for another episode. Today on the show I have Krista Olynyk with me. Krista is the owner and founder of KJ & Co. where she helps wedding planners and pros design and grow the businesses of their dreams. Krista, how are you doing today?
[00:00:34] Krista Olynyk: Pretty good. Happy to be here.
[00:00:36] Sam Chlebowski: First question, let’s get right into it here. How did you get your start as an entrepreneur?
[00:00:42] Krista Olynyk: So it’s been a long and windy path. I always say that I knew in high school I wanted my own business someday. Originally I thought that was going to be as a hairdresser and that just went down that road and it was not for me after a couple years. So I was lucky enough to grow up with two entrepreneurial parents.
[00:01:00] Krista Olynyk: My mom started her business as an interior designer. My dad left. And I loved the flexibility that they had as parents growing up with it
[00:01:12] Krista Olynyk: and so I kind of knew as I was growing up, I wanted. flexibility and to pave my own way and be my own boss. My mom’s business sort of evolved. She got into special events. We lived outside of Toronto at the time, and she started working for a big corporate event company. They did huge event production and decor. So they would always come up with these crazy ideas, and figure who the heck is going to make this happen? And my mom would volunteer me, and so I would sit in front of the TV, cutting up fluorescent mini slinkies, wrapping them around 3, 000 napkins for a big, huge corporate gala going on site dressed in costume.
[00:01:50] Krista Olynyk: We used to do Christmas parade floats for the casinos up north and stuff, like, all these crazy things. And so I got to be exposed to events very [00:02:00] early and that was basically my first job as a teenager. And I worked with them seasonally and as needed through my teens and twenties. And even as I launched KJ& Co whenever they needed a body, there I was.
[00:02:11] Krista Olynyk: I always joke, I’ve been in every freight elevator of every luxury hotel between here and Ottawa. So that was my first foray into special events. My mom and I would always talk about owning a wedding business. That was always our campfire conversation. And after I left hairdressing, I fell into a very boring corporate admin job doing training and regional stuff for a group of physiotherapy clinics. had weddings on the brain.
[00:02:37] Krista Olynyk: I’d met my husband at the time. We were living together and I just thought I was going to look crazy if I started talking and blogging about weddings. So I started writing for a Canadian wedding blog, and it was actually the owner of the blog that really encouraged me to start my own business. And so KJ& Co launched in 2012 right after we got engaged, in that year that I was planning our wedding, I was busting my butt as my side hustle to grow my business, I went full time in 11 months. And then since then I’ve launched a couple different brands and events and it’s evolved. So now I did weddings for about 10 years. When COVID hit, our industry just got the rug pulled out from under us. And I decided instead of trying to pivot to micro weddings or anything that would be, significantly temporary, I decided to just really lean into coaching and mentorship. Which I’ve been doing since 2014. But I always took a back seat because the business was busy, the kids kept me busy. So when 2020 happened, that was me leaning into just really focusing on mentorship and, helping everyone grow their business. And I got to spend even more time at home in my jammies, which is really my goal of life.
[00:03:47] Sam Chlebowski: something that really stands out to me within your story is looking for the permanent solution to what others might consider a temporary problem. So instead of doing that [00:04:00] smaller pivot, you went all into an area of your business, you knew that was working, but you also knew that would.
[00:04:07] Sam Chlebowski: Continue to thrive even after COVID started to subside. And I imagine that was probably a really hard decision at the time.
[00:04:16] Krista Olynyk: It was really weird and hard to turn my back on event planning and wedding planning specifically because that’s how KJ Co grew. That was my first baby.
[00:04:27] Krista Olynyk: But at the end of the day, I want a business that feels good, and suits the lifestyle that I really want. And I knew when I was 16, 17, 18, doing a co op in high school, I want to own a business, I want to own a salon, I want to be in charge of my life, I want to do something. I love that my parents could, be there in the mornings or come on school trips, and they had that control of their schedule. And so when COVID hit, it was what am I going to do? Am I going to, drive myself stir crazy and try to push this gigantic ball uphill while events are changing like every 20 seconds and the rules are changing around us before we can blink? Or. Do I want to just pick the route that allows me to be at home with my kids while my husband’s trying to do his work in the dining room on Zoom calls every 20 seconds. I needed to pivot in a way that made sense for us. It’s not just my business.
[00:05:16] Krista Olynyk: And there is more that I would love to do with my business. And I do have motivation and ambition. But at the end of the day, I want to be mom and partner first. Do I want to grow my business and make more money? Absolutely. Do I have time and do I want all that gray hair? Maybe not. So like, it’s a constant battle.
[00:05:33] Krista Olynyk: But at the end of the day, I know why I chose this. And so I’m making my decisions based on that. And not so much profit first, so to speak.
[00:05:42] Sam Chlebowski: And too, it wasn’t like you just decided out of the blue to get into coaching You had slowly been building that. It sounds like since. Only a couple of years after your business started, you said you started in 2012, were doing coaching since 2014.
[00:05:56] Sam Chlebowski: It’s you have the pieces in place to [00:06:00] do that. And I think that’s a really good piece of advice for anybody who might be considering a pivot within their business is do you understand? Some of the initial framework for what that business will look like. Don’t just pivot out of the blue. Look at your skillset. Look at the things that people are asking for. Look at what you’re good at. Find that perfect harmony between the lifestyle that you want to live and the business that you want to run.
[00:06:27] Krista Olynyk: Yeah, I wasn’t trying to reinvent the wheel. It wasn’t just a choice that I was like, Instead of micro writings, I’m going to coach. What I found was, from the beginning, I worked really hard to grow my business. At the point that I started KJ& Co, I had a full time job. It took me all over. And my husband at the time was working and then coached hockey.
[00:06:49] Krista Olynyk: So he was gone a lot of nights. So I would work a full day, come home, and then be at the computer from like 6pm until midnight just going for it. And doing the research, doing the marketing, the blogging, the networking, all the things. Like I worked for it to grow that business. And what I found was things were happening so fast that people were catching on to it.
[00:07:10] Krista Olynyk: And I was starting to get those calls and emails of like, could I take you for coffee? Well, Yeah, Starbucks is expensive, but so is my brain. This is not just a coffee chat. If you want to hear from me and like, learn the real stuff, show me the money. It’s a little rude,
[00:07:24] Sam Chlebowski: I don’t think it’s rude at all. I think that’s something that a lot of folks out there. Could benefit from hearing because in the early days of your business, regardless of what type of business it is, if you are designing websites, if you are doing, marketing for other businesses.
[00:07:40] Sam Chlebowski: It can be really easy to let the friends, the family creep in and want free work. And I think it’s totally okay to say, show me the money. Obviously you don’t say that to the potential client you’re working with, but that mentality I think is totally acceptable. I think it’s a really good one for people in the earlier [00:08:00] stages of their business.
[00:08:00] Krista Olynyk: I mean I’ve had really incredible wedding clients over the years. I’m really proud of my portfolio and I struggle to think of like the bridezilla’s. back to your point before, it felt really weird to turn my back on But, at the end of the day like, I’m kind of obsessed with the obsessed with the business end of things.
[00:08:17] Krista Olynyk: I would launch a business every day if I could, and if I had the budget and the time. When I struggle now, when I’m like, Oh, I’d love to do this with it, I’d love to do that. And it’s you literally do not have the time. Just put it in a list somewhere, put it in a phone note. The right time will come. It’s all those ideas and the internal chatter.
[00:08:36] Krista Olynyk: And I’m just like, oh, okay. There’s too much. My mantra this year, I literally just printed it when I ordered my custom planner on the weekend, is this pace is on purpose. I’ve created this life. To be slow sometimes, there’s gonna be busy seasons, I want the choice, I want to be able to go to the Remembrance Day assembly at school, or the Christmas one, or like, sign up for the field trips and all that. And sometimes that means saying no to an idea, to a meeting, to a project. And I really believe in trusting my gut . I’m not trying to just build a business 24 7. It’s the life overall that business supports and vice versa.
[00:09:18] Sam Chlebowski: Something that you called out earlier is that you struggled to remember any of the bride Zillow’s, The reason why I bring this up is I think that the reason why you can’t remember.
[00:09:28] Sam Chlebowski: Any of those bridezilla’s or maybe they don’t even exist at all is that you probably had a really great relationship with your clients and you were really great at supporting them through that planning process. a big part of what we talk about on the show is how can you work with clients better?
[00:09:45] Sam Chlebowski: I would love to know from your end specifically when it comes to wedding event planners, wedding pros, what are some of the. Big challenges that you see within that client relationship and some of the problems that you [00:10:00] often help people overcome to provide that better client experience.
[00:10:04] Krista Olynyk: The industry in general has very low barrier to entry, right? There’s no one certification For most of us, we can’t really go to school, grab a degree, and here we are. I’m a wedding planner now. There are event programs, there’s photography, and all that. really, anybody can start their business if they want and hang up a shingle and here we go. I think… A lot of us start very excited about our service and creativity and what it is that we do. But the actual pieces of the puzzle for like having the business function and how you’re going to market and find new clients everything from onboarding and working with them and creating those processes, where to find the right contract, all those things.
[00:10:47] Krista Olynyk: The pieces of the business puzzle and how it functions on a day to day basis. A lot of us are not trained in or excited about. It’s not the fun and pretty stuff, right? That winds up on Instagram. there’s a lot of work that happens behind the scenes to grow your business, keep it ticking and impress clients on a day to day basis and get referrals and social proof to keep it going.
[00:11:08] Krista Olynyk: I had the exposure growing up to business ownership and seeing how hard my parents worked and how they functioned in a home office with filing systems and staff and what they did on the computer and all the spreadsheets my dad used to make.
[00:11:23] Krista Olynyk: The spreadsheet that I use on a daily basis for managing my accounting stuff is literally a version that he gave me in 2012 that
[00:11:31] Krista Olynyk: he used for years as a consultant. It’s those little processes that I think most of us struggle with, because we’re excited for our craft. We’re excited for what we do, and that kind of comes to us naturally, but building a system to create your routine and the different stages of working with a client and all those things we’re fumbling our way through it and faking it till we make it.
[00:11:55] Krista Olynyk: The sooner you create those routines for yourself and find out the right [00:12:00] tools, the better it flows. Because how smoothly you work with your potential clients, even from how you respond to their initial inquiry and book meetings and get them the right forms and contracts and all of that stuff, it makes an impression, right?
[00:12:13] Krista Olynyk: I complain a lot. About businesses that I see like playing house when I get a proposal from somebody and they’re literally copy and pasting bullet points into an email form and I’m like, really, like you couldn’t have made that like a nice designed and branded PDF. They’re not proving their value to me right when a vendor sends me a client contract and it’s a word document. Printed contract that’s been scanned or they attach it. Now. Can you sign this and scan it back? I’m like, it’s it’s 2023 How do you not have an online contract yet? those are all little things that make the process work smoother for your client and create a good impression bit by bit and when people are half assing it so to speak and just doing The least polished option. It’s okay you stay in your lane and everyone else is going to pass you by and find the next thing that makes them look more professional or find the next thing that functions better for them. Along the way, you find the different tools and start to invest in the things that make it work better for you and present a better better outcome. impression for your clients. I think people make a mistake of not investing sooner in their business.
[00:13:19] Sam Chlebowski: Of the big things I pulled out of there and something that was really surprising. For me to hear, obviously it makes sense, but you had mentioned that with with wedding planners, there’s not a lot of repeat business because, the majority of people get married once in their life. because of that lack of repeat business, the client experience becomes a powerful. Marketing channel. You. Plan a wedding for one person. They recommend you to their friends. They had this really great process
[00:13:49] Sam Chlebowski: they weren’t getting just a word document with all of the details about their wedding. They were getting either a slide deck or some sort of visual with here are the chairs. Here’s what the silverware looks like, what [00:14:00] the flowers look like. In a way that offers that very tailored, customized experience to your clients.
[00:14:07] Sam Chlebowski: That can really be, I think in some ways, and tell me if I’m wrong here, one of your most powerful marketing channels, because if you’re delighting those clients, they’re more likely to refer.
[00:14:16] Krista Olynyk: You’re trying to impress them and their entourage at every turn. So I always live for the moment on wedding day when I could see not just my clients, or like, say I’d worked mostly with the bride. On wedding day, seeing the looks on everyone else’s faces, the parents, the partner, the wedding party seeing them go, oh, thank God she’s here.
[00:14:40] Krista Olynyk: Like, how would we have done that without Krista? Not only impressing them on wedding day and how that functions, but throughout the process, when we’re solving problems or when we’re presenting information and they have to forward it to their family and their partners and everybody. There’s all those little touch points that you have along the way to make an impression.
[00:15:00] Krista Olynyk: Not just with your individual client. if I can impress everyone else and also have their referral, I love when I see I would hear from past clients who are like, I’m at a wedding. It is not a KG& Co wedding. And they
[00:15:14] Krista Olynyk: can see like how things function differently with me, right? So you have an ability, not just with your individual client to connect, but also the other collaborators and the other wedding professionals that are involved in the day and the other people on site at the wedding to just have that one moment where you impress somebody and they’re like, Oh, you should have seen the itinerary that we got for my son in law’s wedding or blah, blah, blah, like all that stuff, There are so many facets of your business. And how you function, have the ability to make an impression, not just on your individual client, but their team, their family, whoever. And we forget, right? That like, oh, this is an impression. Even how I show up dressed to an event. There’s all these little things that we could be making an impression upon[00:16:00] to grow the business and get that referral, get that little word of mouth. Something that we did that was like, oh, that was really cool. That was neat. It all makes a difference. You’re not just trying to impress that one client for a great five star review. You’re always on deck with everyone else’s eyes,
[00:16:15] Sam Chlebowski: again, something else I hadn’t considered The wedding planning industry you have, yes, one or two clients that you’re primarily working with, but at the same time, there’s all of these other clients in a way that you have the opportunity to impress and you have the opportunity to grow your business by providing a.
[00:16:34] Sam Chlebowski: experience to those first two people. It opens it up to 50, a hundred, 150, 200 people all at once. That is wow. That’s
[00:16:43] Krista Olynyk: well whether if I’m like the planner on wedding day running around with my clipboard and my little fanny pack making an impression on the venue coordinator, the server in the room, the Brides, cousins, sisters, brothers, girlfriends, sitting at the end of the table the DJ. All of those people are part of now my network, and a potential referral.
[00:17:04] Krista Olynyk: And if I’m being sassy, or difficult, or rolling my eyes in the back of the room at speeches or whatever, there’s a lot of eyes seeing that. Even in all the stories that get shared on social afterwards. There’s a lot of weight to how you’re portraying yourself out and about at the event
[00:17:24] Sam Chlebowski: Another question I wanted to ask you before we wrap up here talked about that client experience piece and how that can be a really powerful way to grow your business. What are some of the other marketing strategies that you are recommending to other wedding and event planning pros out there?
[00:17:41] Krista Olynyk: I think we forget that networking doesn’t necessarily mean showing up at a room, handing out business cards and shaking hands. I always call it like online marketing. So what’s the easiest possible way to put your foot in the door, start a conversation, follow the businesses and places and venues that you want to [00:18:00] be working at and working with. Interact with their content, not just by, double tapping and liking, but leave comments, leave compliments, leave emojis to their stories, and get your name in front of them simply by interacting positively so that when you finally email them to say, Hey, I’d love to work with your business.
[00:18:20] Krista Olynyk: I really like what you’re doing. Could you send some information my way so I can make suitable referrals in the future? making that initial introduction on email so that they have heard of your business probably because they’ve already seen you interacting on Instagram with their stuff. So that when you’re doing site visits, meeting with a potential client and they’re like, Oh, have you done a wedding at such and such venue? You might not be able to say yes, but you can say, Hey, I’ve been in, done a site visit.
[00:18:42] Krista Olynyk: I’ve seen the property. I love it. They get such great light. Like you really have to be willing. To do the research and the work and a lot of that legwork can literally happen at home in our pajamas on the computer You don’t have to be in a car running around to all these places You can network on your butt at home One of my lead magnets are these two spreadsheets for keeping track of venue and vendor information. And I really believe in getting in touch with people and looking around first and gathering information so that when you finally have a client involved, you’re not getting in touch with a lot of these businesses for the first time and you’re not having to do all the research from scratch because you’ve already done the work when you’re sitting there with nothing to do. So I really think be hungry for it and look around and learn more. But online networking is the easiest way to start.
[00:19:27] Sam Chlebowski: That piece of advice block out an hour of your time, engage on some posts, put your name out there.
[00:19:32] Sam Chlebowski: It can be one of the best things that you do. And a lot of people will stumble across you that way. And I think that this is applicable to so many different kinds of businesses. And I love this piece of advice in particular, because it’s something that I’ve started. Doing even with motion. io, going on LinkedIn, commenting on things, engaging with things, not even mentioning the product, I think that if business owners out there can take a step back and understand how they find products and how they find services way more often than you realize. Do you see [00:20:00] a comment from somebody who owns XYZ business and then you go to their profile, you go to their businesses website and it sticks around. It’s in your head when the time is right. And you need that service, people remember those types of things.
[00:20:16] Sam Chlebowski: And if people are finding you at the right time, which is also a huge opportunity by you putting your name out there, it is one of the most impactful things that you can do. In my opinion, it’s totally free.
[00:20:27] Krista Olynyk: Absolutely. It’s totally free. And that was why like all those hours that I spent at the computer at nighttime when Dave was off in the hockey rink, that was all that effort that I put in to get to
[00:20:39] Krista Olynyk: know these businesses, do the research. And it wasn’t like I was immediately emailing them saying, Hey, I’m asking for the world.
[00:20:46] Krista Olynyk: It was just that first touch point.
[00:20:48] Krista Olynyk: Super simple. Hello. I really believe in top of mind is tip of lips. And so I’ve gone and done site visits and gotten on preferred vendor lists simply by introducing myself and making the time to see a space. I mean, It doesn’t always work out as easily as that.
[00:21:02] Krista Olynyk: But like, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
[00:21:04] Krista Olynyk: I’m not immediately asking these people to hand over a discount for my clients. I’m just getting to know
[00:21:09] Krista Olynyk: them. And it also paves the way for smoother interactions later. But yeah, you never know what one little interaction Kind of opens the door later and just paves the way.
[00:21:20] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah, such good advice. Krista, this has been amazing chatting with you, kind of learning about some of the ins and outs of this industry. But also, there was a lot of great pieces that we discussed that are applicable to so many different kinds of businesses.
[00:21:33] Sam Chlebowski: Two final questions to wrap things up here. First one is going to be a business one. Second one will be a fun one. As is the tradition on this show for the first one, the business question, if people want to learn more about the work that you are doing or connect with you online, where should they go?
[00:21:49] Krista Olynyk: so the best place to start is my Instagram at KJ Co. And then obviously my shiny new website. I did a rebrand this year and completely redid all that so that’s been exciting. So
[00:21:59] Sam Chlebowski: It looks [00:22:00] awesome, by the way.
[00:22:00] Krista Olynyk: Thank you. It was a lot of work, but it was worth it. Instagram, my website, there’s tons of helpful stuff for wedding pros on my blog. I do love to write, so have a read there for sure.
[00:22:10] Sam Chlebowski: And we will put links to both of those things in the show notes of this episode. So go ahead and check those out. That’ll be up on our blog at motion. io. and for my final question here, Krista, one for each category, best things you have read, watched, and listened to in the past year.
[00:22:26] Krista Olynyk: I got a Kindle at the beginning of the year. And it has just made me get back into reading. So I have the Unlimited, which is great. But it’s kind of an escape for me. So admittedly, I’m reading a lot of saucy romance novels. I can’t tell you my favorites, but just so nice to like read at the end of the day and not scroll my phone before bed. So that’s been incredible, getting back into reading. Watching… we’ve had to like step back from the dark stuff lately. Um, We’ve been watching the new Frasier reboot.
[00:22:57] Krista Olynyk: I definitely did not watch the original.
[00:22:59] Krista Olynyk: It was my dad’s favorite. We’re watching it now and it’s pretty funny. It’s cute. It’s like a quick one. So that one’s probably like top of our list right now. Listening. I don’t have a lot of time for podcasts I like informative ones like this and ones that are like interesting to me about business and stuff like that. I want to listen actively. I’m not good at background noise. But lately I’ve been listening to New Heights because I’m obsessed with Taylor and Travis. That’s what I’m up to.
[00:23:25] Sam Chlebowski: It’s been on a repeat here at my house
[00:23:27] Krista Olynyk: Okay, good.
[00:23:28] Sam Chlebowski: wife is a huge Taylor Swift fan. So I have I have been learning all of the words to every song. I know which ones I like, which ones I don’t because yeah, we’ve been running through the discography this past year.
[00:23:41] Krista Olynyk: and I’m not even as swifty, like I mostly listen to country music on the radio of my car. I don’t listen to music in the background while I’m working or anything. But I am literally obsessed with Taylor and Travis. And I think it’s because it melds these two worlds. Like my husband is very much into sports.
[00:23:58] Krista Olynyk: I don’t even like football very [00:24:00] much, but this is so interesting to me. And again, it’s like the light that I need in my life right now. There’s a lot going on.
[00:24:06] Krista Olynyk: The world is on fire. Life is stressful. This is just such a nice, bright light. And I will like, live and die on this. If, oh my god, if anything happens to them, it’s, the world is gonna need a day of mourning. But, it’s really exciting to watch, so I’m here for it.
[00:24:22] Sam Chlebowski: I saw this funny post If Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce have a baby, it’s gonna usher in the next baby boom.
[00:24:28] Krista Olynyk: oh my gosh, can you imagine how like, with bated breath, what people will be waiting for them to name a child, to find out and have the announcement it’s gonna be like Simba on the mountain, just
[00:24:37] Krista Olynyk: crazy.
[00:24:38] Sam Chlebowski: the closest thing we get to like, a royal wedding or a royal
[00:24:41] Krista Olynyk: . Pretty much. so all my, all my wedding friends are like where do you think they’ll get married? Like it’s gotta be on her property in Rhode Island, like how do we get on this crew, who’s gonna be the planner? The other day I was thinking maybe they would just elope and do something really small and simple. I don’t know. But this is like what’s consuming my thoughts now, like how do I get on that wedding, how do I work that?
[00:25:01] Sam Chlebowski: I bet they have,like a full production team of 50 planners.
[00:25:06] Krista Olynyk: Yeah. It’s gonna be like when Brad and Jen got married and they had all of those, I don’t know if you remember, they had all those big air balloons,
[00:25:14] Krista Olynyk: like, floating to it was either to block photos or it was to block helicopters. I don’t remember, but that is also a very long time ago. I’m dating myself. It’s gonna be like that. It’s gonna be legendary.
[00:25:26] Sam Chlebowski: We did like a micro version of the balloons at our wedding, we like put up the tent and everything, and we had lights in these massive four foot and six foot wooden balls. It was really cool. I was skeptical at first. I was like, is this worth it, Aaron, my wife?
[00:25:42] Sam Chlebowski: And I gotta say, when we showed up, I was like, this is awesome.
[00:25:45] Krista Olynyk: Oh my gosh. We had balloons at our wedding. They were very trendy in 2013. And at the end of the night, my friend released them from the weight. So when we came back to the venue the next morning, they were in the ceiling of the [00:26:00] boardroom, the bridal suite. And I was like, I’m so sorry, apologizing to the manager my girlfriend thought it was funny and she let all the balloons go, but they stayed up in the ceiling.
[00:26:09] Krista Olynyk: I don’t know how long it took them to get them down. So because of that, I actually have a clause in my contract for the wedding show that says if they use balloons and they get boozed. There’s like a fee that someone would have to pay if we couldn’t get them down because I’ve always thought of that morning looking at these massive 24 inch balloons in the ceiling.
[00:26:27] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah, somebody grabs a Nerf gun or something.
[00:26:29] Krista Olynyk: my god. There’s actually a trick, and I don’t know if this would work on the latex, but I’ve seen on the aluminum foil balloons, that you can shoot them with water, and the water will weight it down.
[00:26:40] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah, the water attaches and then brings it down? Genius.
[00:26:42] Krista Olynyk: Yeah. Little trick.
[00:26:44] Sam Chlebowski: Chris is so awesome chatting with you today. And like I said, we will have links to Krista’s Instagram and her website in the show notes of this episode until then, everybody, this has been a awesome episode of designing growth.
[00:26:56] Sam Chlebowski: If you enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you went to apple or Spotify and gave us a five-star review. It means the world to me personally and helps us get the show out to more people. So thank you all so much for tuning in and we’ll chat with you again next week. Bye. Bye. Take care everybody.
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