Growing Your Business By Finding Your Ideal Client feat. Kenzi Green


Sam talks with business owner, entrepreneur, and brand & web design coach Kenzi Green. Kenzi shares the story of launching her design business in college, graduating full-time self-employed, and explains how finding her ideal client has propelled her business growth over the last four years.

Episode Transcript:

[Designing Growth introduction plays]

[00:00:00] Sam Chlebowski: Happy Thursday everybody, and welcome back to Designing Growth. I am very excited for this episode today. We have another guest joining us on the podcast this week, a design business owner and also a coach and consultant for other design businesses out there. Kenzie Green. Joining us on the podcast, Kenzie founded her design business in 2018 after graduating valedictorian with a bachelor’s degree in interactive media design at our business, Kenzie Green Design.

[00:01:17] Kenzie’s goal is to support business owners on their entrepreneurial journey and help find their unique brand positioning in the market in addition to our design business, Kenzie is a co-founder of The Brief Collective, which is an online community created to support designers in the discovery of their full design potential through design challenges, resources, and their signature course, the Design Biz Academy.

[00:01:38] So, Kenzie, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

[00:01:41] Kenzi Green: I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having.

[00:01:43] Sam Chlebowski: Really excited to kind of dig into your story today and your journey with your design business. It’s something that’s been really incredible for me to see. I had first saw some of your content on TikTok talking about your business and [00:02:00] talking about, your process and how you work with clients.

[00:02:02] We had kind of connected through TikTok, spoke a couple weeks ago. And I was really excited to get you back on the podcast to kind of share your story and dig into some of the specifics because you’ve like nailed this marketing funnel for your business in such a significant way that I think that there’s a lot that other design business owners out there can learn from it. So maybe to start this off, could you go a little bit further into your background, the journey of, from where you started your design business and why you decided to start it to where you are.

[00:02:31] Kenzi Green: so I started going to school for graph design and I kinda went in with the mindset that I was gonna graduate and go work for design agency, and that’s what. Is supposed to do, and there was a speaker that came and spoke at my school, and his name is Jack Canfield and he is the author of a book called The Success Principles.

[00:02:53] I had no idea who he was at this time, but. My design school director had asked me to volunteer. I went to a very small, like private art design school. So like I had that kind of communication with the director and I volunteered for this event and he gave me a copy of his book and I ended up reading this book and it had all of these success stories about like famous people and celebrities and athletes.

[00:03:19] All these people are just achieving these amazing goals and starting businesses and following their passion, and it just kind of sparked something inside of me. And I was like, You know what? I wanna start my own business. And from that point on, I just started soaking up all of the YouTube videos, the free resources.

[00:03:38] Other books, education, blogs, anything I could get my hands on that related to kind of growing your own business and kind of becoming an entrepreneur. I. Started really heavily working on my business first by creating a website, and then I kind of had a logo on some general colors. And as this went on, I’d say probably [00:04:00] about a year into me doing that, I was like, Okay, I’m done with school.

[00:04:03] I don’t even wanna keep going . I’m ready to like drop out and just do my business every single day. Like I was doing client work in class and I felt like I wasn’t really learning at school anymore. I felt like I was actually making a lot more progress through experience and my own research.

[00:04:17] But I stuck it out. Shout out to one of my best friends for encouraging me to stay because I was really like, I want to like just leave. I don’t wanna keep going. But I did graduate fully self-employed. And I have been running my business ever since then. And then in 2021 I met some other designers.

[00:04:34] We started a design community and we started hosting brief design challenges to help designers build their portfolio and get free critiques and feedback. And then that expanded into courses under the Design Biz Academy. So now I’m also teaching and getting to share things with other designers that I wish I had learned while I was attend.

[00:04:55] College that were kind of left.

[00:04:57] Sam Chlebowski: Something that I think a lot of business owners have in common where they have that like hunger to learn and to seek out the information, all of the information they possibly can to grow their business. Looking at strategies and. You know, it becomes the central thing in your life, at least for a significant amount of time where it’s all you want to do and it’s all you wanna work.

[00:05:21] And I love that story. And it, it, it’s also funny to hear you talk about school, I think. When I was going through school, we didn’t have a full fledged like Design Academy, but we did have this certificate program that I had done it was web design, it was media design called TAM at CU Boulder.

[00:05:39] And once I got into that, I like finally found, I think, where I wanted to be and it was this sort of entrepreneurial mindset.

[00:05:47] , your early clients with your design business, how were you finding those clients? Even before maybe you went full time with the business?

[00:05:54] Kenzi Green: So my first few clients came from Facebook groups. , and I did attend [00:06:00] a few networking events because I was just exploring all sorts of ways to connect with people at that time. And I did get a client or two from those networking events, but I came to realize that’s not really where my IDO clients are hanging out.

[00:06:13] I also never really experienced this amazing word of mouth. Type of deal that other people talk about. A lot of times when I ask designers, Okay, like, how did you get your first few clients? Or How do you get clients? Blah, blah, blah. It’s usually, oh, word of mouth. I never had that experience. So it was mostly going in Facebook groups, providing value, going to a few networking events, and I did have, I’d say, like two to three clients from Upwork.

[00:06:38] I don’t use Upwork anymore, but at that time I did get a few from there as.

[00:06:41] Sam Chlebowski: The word of mouth thing is so funny because it seems to work for some people and. Other business owners are like, Well, I’m doing all I can. I’m doing like cold outreach, I’m emailing people, I’m on LinkedIn, I’m in Facebook groups. And I think that that, at least in my opinion, that is gonna be a more typical journey for a business owner that your first clients you’re gonna have to put in the work is where I kind of stand on.

[00:07:05] That word of mouth will come eventually, but early days, I think it’s all about putting in that work. And it sounds like that’s kind of exactly what you had to do is put yourself out.

[00:07:13] Kenzi Green: Yeah definitely and still to this day, I mean, every now and then I’ll get word of mouth clients, but it’s still a lot of just people finding me through my content and through the ways that I. I choose to market my business.

[00:07:27] Sam Chlebowski: And it seems like you know, where your business started and where your early clients , have come from has been sort of instrumental to your growth along the way. Because I look at all of the stuff that you put out, , on the various social channels. You have a YouTube channel, you have a TikTok Instagram.

[00:07:41] Between all of those things, I think the thing that ties them together is providing educational resources and providing really valuable content for people. What are the ways that you use that content to drive business leads?

[00:07:54] To make sure that it’s not just people who are other designers, but it’s also people who are interested [00:08:00] in working with you that have a business that, they need design work.

[00:08:03] Kenzi Green: Yeah, so really depends on the platform. So for example, like TikTok, The audience is a little bit more broad, as in I can do some tips for designers, and then I can also have a mix of videos where I’m answering questions from business owners who are my ideal target audience, or just answering, you know, branding and logo design questions in general, and making videos, showcasing my work and critiquing my own work from the past, and things like that are something that.

[00:08:31] Lots of people can relate to. So even like other designers will see that and then my ideal target audience will see that and other people will see it and they’ll all watch it. So TikTok, I really can bridge that gap and have, all sorts of different types of content. And then, Instagram. I’d say I’m probably a bit more focused on giving out advice and speaking about my experiences as a designer, because I think that’s a little bit more of a formal place, and that’s where I create content that’s primarily targeted towards the people I’m trying to work with.

[00:08:59] But overall, I mean, my content has taken me years to kind of nail down, and I think that that’s something that has really, really helped me long term. Is the fact that I put in so much work and so many hours into creating social media content and trying to grow my account, that it has allowed me to find how I like to show up, how I like to present myself, what I like to talk about, and be really comfortable doing it at the same time.

[00:09:25] Sam Chlebowski: Part of the reason why I asked that question is because I thought it was genius. The way that you are able to sort of bridge that gap between connecting with designers, but also connecting with potential clients through your content. Is content really the key part of your marketing strategy?

[00:09:42] Is there anything else that you do? Content. Are there any other strategies that you mix in there or is content creation in your funnel there enough to support your business fully?

[00:09:52] Kenzi Green: I’d say it’s basically solely my. Content. I don’t do cold outreach. I don’t do [00:10:00] really much of anything else. I do have an email newsletter, but I’m not totally consistent with that. And also I think something that really just plays a huge role in my success as a designer is optimism. I’m always thinking positively and. I think that’s something that I’ve also learned over the years because in my first year of business I didn’t really make that much money and I had a lease on a house I had to pay, and that put me in a position where I was very, very scared. But I also kept a positive mindset and I feel like that plays such a huge role in the success of a business and how you get clients.

[00:10:36] Sam Chlebowski: I subscribe to a very similar philosophy. Know where you are now to where you want to end up . Put that out into the universe and you will be surprised how many times that happens. And I was talking to a friend the other day about this, and we had basically agreed that when you do that and when you think about where you want to end up, your subconscious is gonna like drive you to do things that make that happen along the way.

[00:11:00] So I love that philosophy that you shared

[00:11:03] Kenzi Green: I think visualization is also like a really important tactic when it comes to, you know, going after your goals and staying positive.

[00:11:10] Sam Chlebowski: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. Couldn’t agree more. One thing that you had mentioned was your ideal client and that at certain things that you were doing, you know, It wasn’t generating the types of ideal client people that you like to work with. What do you see as the importance for a design business to have a ideal client profile?

[00:11:31] Kenzi Green: One of the biggest mistakes I see designers make, especially newer designers, is that they just come to the market trying to offer any and every design service they can think of, and they’re helping anybody. And then they end up with this portfolio of work that they don’t necessarily love, they’re not necessarily passionate about because they’ve just taken on any and every project they can get, and then it attracts more of that type of work.

[00:11:57] So, In order to [00:12:00] really work with the people you wanna work with, first off, you have to figure out who they are, what they actually need, and how you can serve them, as well as incorporate that into your content. Because I even experienced that, you know, my first year in business, I kind of went through that entire cycle and realized, okay, I need to really define who I wanna work with here because the types of clients that are reaching out to me now aren’t the right people.

[00:12:21] I’m not enjoying this and that kind of. You know, happened over time through my content, through working with different people, I was really able to nail down who my I know clients.

[00:12:31] Sam Chlebowski: And this concept of, you know, having an ideal client is something I personally think is super important. I know I asked the question, why do you think it’s important, but I was interested in hearing what you had to say and what you had shared about newer designers. Kind of Being a generalist maybe for a little bit too long is, Interesting for me to think about because if I’m thinking about somebody, you know, in the early stages of their business, I could see that that almost sounds counterintuitive, that.

[00:12:58] It would be the natural tendency to say, I have this business. I want to serve as many people as possible. I wanna grow the business. But I think in some ways that can actually limit your growth because you’re not able to really refine your messaging and speak to the people that you’re looking to get in front of or refine your services to deliver consistent results and really delight each.

[00:13:19] Kenzi Green: You have to think about long term what you want. If you just want to be considered a general designer that can do all types of things, great if that’s what you want. But if you want to work with really high profile, high ticket clients who are in industries that you really, really love, you have to figure out a way to attract them.

[00:13:45] and a way to show up that’s gonna be appealing to them because I can guarantee you that type of person is not looking for a generalist. They’re looking for an expert who clearly has a body of work that aligns with their vision and their goals as a business.

[00:13:58] Sam Chlebowski: I could not [00:14:00] agree more. And I, I also think about things like a portfolio. If somebody is looking for a, for design services, for example, for a home remodeling company, they’re gonna put that in a search and they’re gonna look that up and they wanna see examples of businesses like theirs where, a, designer has done work for them similar to that.

[00:14:20] Something that we talk about quite a bit on this show, and what we’re [email protected] is making it easier for design businesses, small businesses, to work with clients and make that process of collaboration easier. What are your three tips for managing your client process?

[00:14:39] Kenzi Green: tip number one would be to utilize professional tools as in utilize Calendly so they can easily book, utilize Zoom so you’re not texting your client. Utilize things like that. So n it’s not only organized, but also it makes it easy for the client. Tip number two. Make sure you have a really structured process because if you’re just sending stuff and you’re like, Okay, what do you think of this?

[00:15:05] What do you think of that? You’re gonna go back and forth for hours and hours and days. Just trying all sorts of different ideas, which is why I personally teach and use the one concept method in my design business, which is where I essentially. Present one entire brand identity with a strategy. I explain my approach.

[00:15:23] I show the client how each and every piece works, so they really have an understanding. Of how it’s gonna benefit their business. And some of the questions I ask make them think of things from a customer or client perspective. So a lot of times clients will just look at things and think from their own personal opinion.

[00:15:42] But what you really want to give your client is something that of course they’re going to love, but something that’s also gonna benefit their brand. So I ask them very specific thought provoking questions that make them think that way, and I think that’s very important. And I also have a. offboarding guide and an entire folder [00:16:00] with everything and instructions.

[00:16:01] once you create something for clients, it’s also extremely important and helpful for them to have some sort of guide or document that somewhat instructs them on how to use the materials you’ve created, because if not, they will not utilize them properly or just be completely lost after you’re done working.

[00:16:20] Sam Chlebowski: So tip number one, I love that you know, use professional tools. I’m all about that, you know, not trying to create a hack together solution and. Using the things that are going to help you save time, be more efficient, but also provide that client experience. I would like to dive in and learn a little bit more about is the importance of having a process and a strategy for working with clients. The one concept method, is that something that you came up?

[00:16:50] Kenzi Green: No, it’s been around for years. It has gotten much more popular, I’d say in the. Two years or so. But this has been around for a while. Some really, really established designers that I kind of admired when I first started my business, were actually using this method, which is where I kind of learned about it.

[00:17:08] And for most designers, they come into the market with. Okay, I’m gonna design a bunch of these concepts and let my client choose or, or let my client pick this and this and put it together. And what happens when you do that is one you usually get a Frankenstein effect where your client will just pick pieces from different elements and try to match them together.

[00:17:27] But two, you are asking your client to make design decisions. When they’re not really the design professional in the situation. So utilizing the one concept method allows the designer, the professional, and the expert in the situation to present what they think is going to be the strongest concept for their client and for their brand.

[00:17:48] Without the client’s opinion and personal thoughts may be getting in the way and, you know, asking or making decisions that are based out of pure preference and not okay, what’s actually gonna be [00:18:00] beneficial for the.

[00:18:00] business

[00:18:00] Sam Chlebowski: Hearing the. Methodology behind it makes perfect sense because I think something that can be hard that I’ve experienced is clients want you to explain why you did something.

[00:18:12] But they don’t always come out and say that they want that explanation, but they might not tell you that upfront. And I think that this one concept method is like the perfect way to say, Hey, I need to be telling the client why I’ve done specific things, why I put this together. Or at least that’s kind of my understanding of it.

[00:18:32] Would you agree?

[00:18:32] Kenzi Green: Oh yeah. And. The first time I ever used this method, my client came back with zero revisions and I was like, Wow, this is a complete game changer. Because not only, like I said, does it allow you to, Present the strongest concept, but when you have the one concept method and you present it in this presentation, they can see how it all works together as a brand identity and not just little pieces here and there, like you would typically get from a variety of different logo concepts by themselves

[00:19:06] Sam Chlebowski: That’s amazing. So what kind of questions are you asking throughout this process? You’d mentioned that you’d like to ask them some specific questions. What kind of questions are those?

[00:19:17] Kenzi Green: So for an example, a question would be how do these design elements, layout, font choices, and color palette resonate with your ideal target? How can these things be improved upon to better resonate with your ideal target audience? So again, reframing that. So when they’re thinking about the answers, they’re thinking, Okay, what’s going to be attractive to the people that I am trying to serve?

[00:19:41] And not just what do I like, you know?

[00:19:43] Sam Chlebowski: Part of what we’re doing with motion.io and our visual feedback tool, you’ll be able to present designs alongside questions. So you could be able to show someone a brand strategy doc and ask them a. similar question like that and say, Hey, how does this resonate with you?

[00:19:59] [00:20:00] what do you think could be done to make this better resonate with your ideal market? So I love those sorts of questions. It’s really, really cool for me to hear.

[00:20:08] Kenzi Green: I would say new designers, first off, if they learn about this method, they’re intimidated by it. I was intimidated by it, but like I said, the first time I used it, I had zero refinements. And also some clients see the one concept method and they’re like, Well, I don’t wanna work with that person.

[00:20:23] And to me, that’s just a bonus because I’m like, if. Is something that you aren’t open to, then you’re not my ideal client because my ideal clients are not focused on how many concepts they’re gonna get. They’re focused on working with someone who is going to deliver something that’s going to get their business results, and that’s really where my expertise lies.

[00:20:42] Sam Chlebowski: And you are the expert. They are coming to you, they are trusting you with their brand. You’re gonna make the best decisions for them. And I think that that really reinforces that. And if somebody wants, you know, a ton of different. Concepts, you know, there are options for that out there. But the people who really want that level of expertise, that deep knowledge of design and what’s gonna work best for their business, you know, they’re gonna be attracted to you and your business.

[00:21:10] Kenzi Green: Exactly.

[00:21:10] Sam Chlebowski: A final question I’d like to ask within this. Tip you shared of having a strategy for your process of working with clients was off boarding.

[00:21:19] What are the types of things that you include in offboarding information to your.

[00:21:25] Kenzi Green: So it can vary depending on the project and what was included in the project. But for example, I always have a section that is like the dot p and g file is the transparent file, the dot. EPS file is a vector compatible file, and here is how to get your highlight covers to your phone and upload them to Instagram.

[00:21:48] Here are the links to your reasonable social media templates. You can upload the dot SVG files to the software and change the colors. It can really vary depending on what was included in the [00:22:00] project, because obviously like some clients have a bunch of icons that they need to change or that they need to utilize, and others may have a business card that they need to order.

[00:22:09] And I’m like, Okay, here’s the file. Here’s instructions on how to order it from, you know, this company. You pick the. Paper type and you pick how many you want, things like that. And then when it comes to website design, I actually provide a one hour training session to my clients because I want them to understand how to use their website moving forward.

[00:22:26] And I do offer hourly support to my past clients. So if they, you know, won’t help in the future or want a new page or something, they can reach out to me. But I also provide that training session so they have a basis of, Okay, I wanna update this photo or change this text. They can easily go in and do those minor things without the need for as.

[00:22:43] Sam Chlebowski: Your process for working with clients and the way you work with them seems like it is so worked through and that you’ve really perfected it over time.

[00:22:52] And it’s amazing to hear you share that.

[00:22:54] Kenzi Green: Thank you. It has taken a

[00:22:55] really long time to get to this point.

[00:22:57] Sam Chlebowski: So we covered tip number one which was all about, using the tools and using professional tools for your business. Tip number two, have a strategy and we broke down some of the components of that strategy. What’s your final tip?

[00:23:09] Kenzi Green: Set boundaries. definitely set boundaries with clients. I think that that is, One of the biggest components in a healthy client designer relationship, and what I mean by set boundaries is have set work hours, be strict and, you know, straightforward to the amount of refinements you provide. Make sure the stuff is outlined in your contract.

[00:23:29] Make sure the client has signed the contract. Be very, you know, Straightforward with how your payment structure works. These things are so important because if you go down the wrong road, you end up in a burnout cycle. You end up presenting the client. Maybe the client even feels like you aren’t doing enough, but you’re like breaking your neck, trying to do everything you can for them, and that’s why boundaries are so important to set.

[00:23:55] Sam Chlebowski: Amazing advice to end on. So with that [00:24:00] and thank you for so much for sharing all of those great tips hugely powerful stuff there. And hearing it firsthand from somebody who’s experienced such tremendous growth in their business is, you know, really, really impactful to me with that. What’s new with your businesses?

[00:24:14] What are you working on recently?

[00:24:15] Kenzi Green: So right now, as of lately, I have been working with a few different women in businesses. but also I have been providing a lot of post-launch support to my past clients. For example, Modern Cone based out of Michigan. I have been doing some signage and logo variations for their new signage for the new building they’re building which is super exciting.

[00:24:40] I can’t wait to see like my logo on their new building and all of that good stuff. Providing post support to a longtime client with their new upcoming. Book on their website, Just things like that. I am really trying to take a break this winter. I feel. At this point in my career, that’s actually something I struggle with is taking a break.

[00:25:01] So that’s really something I’m trying to focus on. I am now booking in advance for 2023, just to try and give myself that space to hopefully have a really solid break this year. And then with the Brief Collective, we just enrolled a bunch of new design students and we also just implement, implemented a new feature into our.

[00:25:22] Highest level grade, which is designed this academy, university, and this new feature is called DBA Sorority, which basically means if you enroll in our highest level grade, within the first 24 hours you become a part of sorority. And we have these fun little virtual after dark parties that happen after some of our group coaching calls.

[00:25:43] They get like special ex exclusive merch. They get to become a part of an exclusive mentorship program and. . It’s just a really cool to see our students not only enjoy these new features that we’re adding, but also interact with our past [00:26:00] graduates. So we have an alumni program and they’re gonna be kind of mentoring our newer students in the sorority.

[00:26:05] So there’s a lot going on there, but that’s kind of what has been happening as of lately.

[00:26:09] Sam Chlebowski: Wow, that is so cool. All of the stuff that you get with the brief collective, it just like, sounds like such a fun community to be a part of. And honestly, even more fun to. Run and see like its growth and see, people that have been a part of it, go out into the world and have these successful design businesses.

[00:26:28] Really powerful stuff. And also, you know, the importance of taking a break is something I’ve learned firsthand too. You know, it’s so important to take that time to reset and recharge in my opinion. So it’s good to hear that, you know, you are, you’re making time for that and trying to have that be a focus This.

[00:26:45] Kenzi Green: Yeah, I think that it’s, I mean, I genuinely don’t believe that there is anything such as work life balance. I just don’t believe that it’s possible, so I kind of just try to listen to how my body is feeling, how I’m feeling. If I’m feeling, you know, like I’m not super happy waking up doing work, maybe that’s a sign, Okay, I need to take some time off.

[00:27:12] I need to get inspired again. I need to take a break. And other times if I take a break for a really long time, Feel really inspired and want to make a lot of content and have a lot of work coming in. And I will say that I can also kind of control the amount of inquiries I get in a way based on how much content I put out and the type of content I put out.

[00:27:32] Because at this point I can kind of maneuver, okay, what type of content is going to attract a bunch of clients, or what type of content is just going to educate my clients for the future? And things like,

[00:27:41] Sam Chlebowski: What an amazing thing to be able to do as well, that you know that if you put out a certain type of post, it can result in, you know, a certain number of inquiries. That level of like growth and having your marketing. Funnel dialed in. I am frankly super jealous of, It’s like something [00:28:00] that you do not see a lot.

[00:28:01] Kenzi Green: And I mean, there’s, there’s never any 100% guarantee with social media, but. It’s just, there’s been so many times where I’ve created content and received, you know, seven plus inquiries in one night, which is insane for the high ticket level at which my services offer to see that many inquiries at one time.

[00:28:22] So that’s kind of how I’ve learned. Okay. What. You know, is going to do well, what’s going to get inquiries and when do I actually wanna post that content? Because, I mean, I’ll make stuff and just keep it on my phone for weeks because I don’t wanna release it because I am anticipating that it’s going to cause a reaction like that.

[00:28:39] Sam Chlebowski: That is so cool. Yeah. So yeah, two final questions before we cap things off. First one more of a business. One second one is kind of a fun one. So a couple weeks ago there was big news that Adobe had acquired Figma. What are your thoughts on that? Did you use Figma previously?

[00:28:58] Kenzi Green: I am just a huge Adobe gal so I could care less . I used Figma one time for a client project. And that’s about it. So a lot of people seem to be bothered by Adobe, almost monopolizing things, but personally I have never been bothered by it because I am such a huge believer in their products and use their products every single day.

[00:29:24] That’s all basically I ever use. I mean, of course there’s Canva as an alternative and that can be useful for a lot of other things, but. Yeah. I don’t have much thoughts on it because It doesn’t affect me. pretty much.

[00:29:36] Sam Chlebowski: That’s about where I stand. I’m more or less, you know, am on the same page as you, where, you know, I like Adobe products.

[00:29:42] I use them, I like them. They work for me. So with that, a final question. In your time off and in your time away from work, what do you like to.

[00:29:49] Kenzi Green: So I have pet chickens, so a big one is hanging out with my pet chickens. They’ve even been in a few of my brand photos, so that’s fun.[00:30:00] I also do run a podcast called the Unapologetic Designer Podcast, and usually I update that every week with an episode. So that’s something that’s been a really fun, creative outlet for me to just speak more.

[00:30:14] About what’s on my mind and share my thoughts about design industry topics and things that I feel like need to be talked about more. And then I also garden during springtime. I live on the countryside, so there’s a lot of farmland I have a bunch of plants. I’m a plant lady, have to take care of my plants.

[00:30:33] So I’m, you know, just a creative outdoorsy type of person at the root of things, which is pretty crazy because like I spend eight hours plus a day on a computer. But I try to make an effort to get outside, go out and do things and you know, get out of the tech area that I’m in basically every day of the week.

[00:30:54] Sam Chlebowski: I love it. I grew up on a farm like rural Pennsylvania, and we always had chickens. But I can’t, I live here in the city of Denver now. And uh, the urban chickens are not a thing here, unfortunately.

[00:31:07] So I was jealous to hear about your chickens, how the garden do this year.

[00:31:11] Kenzi Green: Uh, Well, it went absolutely berserk. And what I mean by that is we did a really big garden this year. Too big. I would say actually we got like a fence. And when I say we, I mean my significant other and I, we’ve been together for like eight years. So long term relationship, we really wanted to do the big garden.

[00:31:32] We got a fence, we got the tiller, like we did all the things and then we planted way too many plants of things that we don’t even eat. So we had a lot of overgrowth, just vegetables dying. But we did get some really great watermelon out of it. We got a few eggplant, jalapeno pa. I mean, we had a lot of stuff going on, but I think we planted a little too much

[00:31:56] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah. It’s so fun though. It can be like easy to get carried away. We had a [00:32:00] garden this year that we’re working on it to work in progress. My wife follows, and I don’t know if, if you’ve ever seen them epic gardening on YouTube. This guy,

[00:32:08] Kevin has his great gardening channel that we were following. We have that just like on repeat throughout the winter, like planning everything out.

[00:32:15] Our growing season a little bit shorter than yours. Our garden did not do nearly as well as yours, so it’s cool to see that somebody had some success this year.

[00:32:24] Kenzi Green: I mean, it was a ton of work, like just upkeep with like weeds and things and pluck. I mean, I, I didn’t pluck everything when I was supposed to pluck it because I, there was so much, like, there was just so much going on, but it was definitely fun and I think we’ll do it again in the future, just not as many plants.

[00:32:43] Sam Chlebowski: So that wraps it up for this episode of Designing Growth. Kenzie, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your expertise, sharing your story. This episode has been phenomenal and there’s just so many good tips in here for designers at every stage of their business.

[00:33:00] I will put the link to Kenzie’s website as well as the brief collective in the show notes to this episode, along with Kenzie’s social links. So go ahead and check those out. Until then, Take care.

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