Creating Something From Nothing

Episode Transcript:

[Intro Music Plays]

[Sam Chlebowski Starts Speaking, Hosting Motion.io Co-Founder & CEO Perry Rosenbloom]

Sam:

Happy Thursday, everybody. And welcome back to designing growth, really excited for this episode because today we have our first guest and what will become a very routine guest on this podcast? My co-founder, my friend, my former boss… Perry Rosenbloom joining us on the show.

Perry:

What’s up everybody? I am so happy to be here. So excited to be recording this with you, Sam. It’s been a few years since we recorded something together from back in the old business days and excited to be here and be working on motion.io together.

Sam:

Yeah, I’m really excited, you know, to be working together again on a business.  How many years has it been now since we formally worked together? About two, I think?

Perry:

Yeah, around two years. So it’s been a while you know, it’s exciting to be back in the saddle together and, and making some, some good magic happen and building something unique and powerful for the industry.

Sam:

Yeah, and I do wanna get into that, talking about what brought us here to Motion.io and the things that we’re doing at Motion.io and the product we’re building. But first, I want to lead into that by asking you if you could share something personally that happened cool with you this week, that relates to Motion.io?

Perry:

So something cool that happened to me this week that relates to motion.io and also relates to last business, is that I am full-time now. And full-time on motion.io. I’m recording this right now, though from an iPad pro because I managed to spill coffee all over my laptop as I was setting up.And I found it really ironic because in, in our prior business, over at brighter vision, there were. Two times that we hired a new employee and they spilled either coffee or soda all over their new computer in their first week. and I mean, we can go on about the funny story with that, but, uh, you know, they were terrified after that happened, but I am super proud that I am the first person in Motion.io to destroy a computer in their first week of work, literally in my first like 10 minutes of work, I managed to destroy a computer. As we start hiring folks, I think it should go into the culture guide or culture book that we create.

Sam:

It just shows you that anybody can make, you know, these kinds of silly mistakes. And I think that ultimately becomes an important part of culture. Admitting that, Hey, everybody makes mistakes. At some point they’re unavoidable. It’s about what we can do as a team, working together to mitigate some of those mistakes, whether it be spilling coffee on a laptop, or whether it be something more specific to the company, the product, the things that we’re sending out.

So I like that anecdote. 

Perry:

 And, you know, that’s a great point you made there Sam about how anyone can make mistakes.  And when we were building Brighter Vision, our agency, there’s so much interaction when there’s a client-facing project between a designer or a project manager and the client. And at the end of the day,  we’re only humans and everybody who’s working on a project is only a human and  there are gonna be mistakes that get made – and something we found and something that’s pushing us in motion.io. And this direction, we wanna create a product that when there’s humans interacting on a product and with clients and client facing projects, we can help  the company minimize the amount of human mistakes that happen in a client facing project.

So that way the client will ultimately be happy with the end result because the process will be smoother. The experience of working with that company, that agency to get the end result is gonna be so much more enjoyable because there’s a product out there like motion.io. That’s gonna help minimize some of the human mistakes that can be made in the process.

Sam:

It’s a really great point Perry, that brings up a larger idea of what this product, what Motion.io, is all about because. At the heart of every agency  are those human interactions that are so important  and the role of software in an agency, and I would love to hear your take on this. The role of Software should not replace those human interactions and those things that really make someone’s experience working with an agency so much more enjoyable. It should be instead software trying to  help streamline things in a way where  you are allowing more space and more bandwidth to spend more time with your clients and get to know them in a better way. When you are not strapped down  chasing down clients for the things you need, the approvals, the feedback, and things like that. And that’s a big part of how I’m looking at what we’re doing at Motion.io and how we communicate the mission and product. But what are your thoughts? Anything to add, expand, or change?

Perry:

Sam,  I think you hit the nail on the head, like perfectly there. You know, when you’re doing client work, The interactions and the relationship that you build with the client is so integral and so key to a project’s success as is the collaboration side of things. What we’re focusing on with motion is to make it so that collaboration can happen more easily.

So that way software is not hindering collaboration, but enabling collaboration. And that software is not replacing relationships and interactions, but improving the client relationship and your relationship with the client and the interactions you have. You know, it’s gonna help the agency owner make their business more streamlined. It’s gonna help improve overall employee happiness because.  Let’s face it. No employee wants to be picking up the phone and dialing 10, 15 clients and pestering them for deliverables that they, or feedback that they need. They wanna be able to focus on design and focus on improving the experience.

And that’s gonna help the client experience and make the client happier and long term lead to more business because a happier client refers to more business. Right. And so if you’re able to improve that client experience, improve that client process to the point that the client is HAPPI. It improves your overall reviews that you get and the quality of your reviews online. And you’re gonna get so much more business and they get lots more referrals as well.

Sam:

And I completely agree with all of the things that you.  Improving  the way that you’re working with clients has so many implications  within every aspect of your business, from those referrals, from the reviews, from your ability to ultimately scale and grow your business. You had mentioned brighter vision and something that I’ve talked about in our last couple of episodes. I know you’ve listened to those Perry, but what I would like to do for just a. Because we are early on in this podcast early on in our journey of motion.io and developing the product itself  I would love to hear from your perspective how your previous experiences, brighter vision being, one of them drove you to want to create motion.io.

Perry:

 And Sam, thanks for starting this podcast  and thank you to our listeners for engaging with us on this podcast. The early days of podcasts are so tricky and challenging, right? Like I, you know, we had a podcast over at brighter vision about 200 episodes in, if you listen to those first episodes, oh man. They were, they were rough. And, and I think you’ve done a great job at creating a foundation here for our podcast. And I, I hope our audience is enjoying this so far.

Brighter vision  was a different kind of agency.   We were building 200, 300 websites a month which was kind of out of this world. And, and we’d always see problems though, by doing things at that scale, we’d see certain areas where projects got stuck. A lot of it. Focused around the client, never really quite knowing where they are in the process and what they need to do to push the project forward.  A few thousand websites in, we started realizing that and, and we ended up building our own software internally to help. Some of those problems but never quite fully solve them, and the way we were solving it was different. But we took that experience and we started talking with customers, potential customers [email protected] talking with agency owners and creatives about the problems they face. And we found a lot of great information that yes, there’s problems with Clients not knowing where in the process they are clients not knowing what they need to deliver to push the process forward. And so we validated those ideas and created some unique features in motion.io that will help enable that to, to be resolved. But then we also found that some of the problems that we used to face at brighter vision, that we solved specifically as it relates to feed.  is still a major problem that agencies are facing. It’s compounded due to software, the software that exists right now and the software we use at brighter vision.  is actually making the problem worse for a lot of agencies and creatives, because what this software does, it allows you to put a little sticky note somewhere and say, I don’t like this color.Can I change this color? But that tangential unstructured feedback is really challenging for agencies to deal with and challenging to analyze because you know, designers and agency owners. Speak a very different language than a client. Like if you’re building a website, for example, for a roofer, they’re not gonna speak that same design language that you all speak at your agency. So as we started uncovering more and more about this problem, it became really exciting to us of, Hey, not only can we work to solve the problem of keeping projects moving forward and communicating to a client what’s needed to push it.  but we can really solve this problem of feedback. And how does an agency get the right feedback from a client to push a project forward?

Sam:

What you just mentioned. I think it also partially relates to what we had talked about right at the start of the episode, when we were talking about giving those person to person personal relationships, interactions, a space to breathe. And for me, that’s something that becomes a big problem with project management solutions. The tools that are there to check off those boxes to get specific things done. I think that in some ways, those pieces of software can take away from your relationship with clients and fulfill the end result of a project in a really meaningful way.

Perry:

You know, Sam,   I love project management tools for working internally, Asana, Monday.com,   we even use Trello internally. Those are really great tools for an agency to use, to keep their team on track, but they’re not built for clients, right? again, going Back to the example of a roofer, or we can talk about a therapist with, with brighter. If a therapist goes into Asana, generally speaking, they’re gonna see this dashboard that is just so confusing and has so much going on in it. that’s just gonna create friction in the process. If you expect your clients to go into a standard project management dashboard like Asana or Monday, and be able to use it successfully. You’re asking a lot of your clients right there. You’re asking them to, to adapt to systems and processes  that your team lives in every single day.  and that’s gonna create a lot of friction.  Base camp, for example, they’ll log in, be like, what on earth am I supposed to do here? I have no clue. Let me out. And I’ll shoot over three or four emails to my designer and tell them what I need done. And that just creates friction and it creates frustration. And so, you know, with motion, we wanna remove that friction process and, and, and frustration. We wanna build a client focused dashboard that shows your client what they need to do in a very streamlined, simple, but elegant way to keep that project moving forward.

Sam:

In a way I would look at project management tools as almost putting a client on a production line versus  having a real breathing, living relationship with them. Project management tools to me, if you’re trying to use it with a client, seem way more Henry Ford less let’s sit down and talk about.

Perry: 

To extend that further, you know, there’s a lot of agencies that we’ve spoken with, that because these tools are so production line focused. They’ll end up going back to, you know, something like Excel and Excel generally can work better than some of these other project management tools for a client interaction, but still Excel is cold. Excel is not conducive to collaboration, and there’s no way that you can get feedback in a streamlined way on Excel. That’s gonna lead to actionable items for your team to go complete to push that project forward.  I think we need to, uh, take that Henry forward line  and use that in our marketing copy. I love that. And if anyone’s listening to this, we’d love to hear what your thoughts are on that Henry Ford line. Cause I think Sam knocked outta the park on that.

Sam:

Oh, thanks, man. I did wanna switch gears a little bit. You talked about how brighter vision we were doing things at scale, and this gave us an opportunity to really analyze our relationships   with clients and how we were working with them and look for tools and solutions to do that.

Another thing that was useful working at that type of scale is we also got a really great sense. At least what I think is a really great sense now in hindsight, to see insights into, when to hire and how to hire, because we were growing a team from just a couple of people, you know, I joined you as employee number three, up to 30 employees, and there were a lot of lessons. Learned along the way. And I’d love to dive into that because even if agencies out there not working at that kind of scale of doing two to 300 projects a month, there is gonna come a time when you need additional help and you need to hire what I wanted to first start by asking you as the founder of brighter vision, the one who was doing almost all of the hiring for. I would say, you know, three quarters of our existence as a business, what would be your tips for an agency who hasn’t made a hire yet to identify where they most need help and where they would most benefit from help?

Perry:

Gosh what a great question Sam and hiring is challenging. It’s one of the hardest things that you’re going to do as a business owner, at the end of the day, right? Like if, if you’re this, if you’re a solo business owner,  you got into this because you wanted to design, you wanted to work with clients.You wanted to own your own time and build the business of your dreams. And then you’re like, oh, I have to hire what, what, when, how, who, the first few hires that I made, in Brighter Vision…there are some rough hires. Hiring is again the hardest thing that you’re gonna do.So a lot of it depends on your goals, right? Like, what is your goal as an agency owner? Do you want to.   A small little team of, you know, three people and have a nice lifestyle business. Do you wanna build a nice team of 10 people? Do you wanna build this up to a hundred people? What, what are your goals? And that can allow you to work backwards from there, and those goals can shift over time, right? Like, you know, with brighter, the goal  was initially to keep it, you know, a nice small team of two to three people. Eventually we ballooned up to like 35 or so and built. Cool software product. But if you, when you’re looking at things of what and where to hire, if you want to build a bigger business than what you can do yourself, you’re likely gonna need to bring somebody on to do some client work so that you can go out and do sales and do more sales on the same hand. You could also look at what are my biggest weakness.

And you can work to bring in help to backfill your weaknesses. At the end of the day,  when you’re looking to hire, though, again, it goes back to your goals because if you want to be the person who’s doing the design work and doing the creative. And that’s what gives you purpose and meaning in your day to day, you’re likely not gonna want to bring somebody on to take that off of your plate unless you have enough work for that person, plus you to do that.So what your first step might be would be to maybe hire a salesperson to help get more sales in the door and then look to bring on another part-time designer, cuz you’re not gonna be able to keep up with all that sales work. But at the end of the day, you know, look at what your goals are and work backwards from there.

Sam:

Working backwards from a goal is actually one of the best things that I learned from you. And I think it has a lot of implications, even outside of hiring.  If you are looking at marketing, Hey, how many customers do we want to bring in this year? If you can work back from that goal, you have a really clear picture of what are the inputs, what is the effort? What is the budget that you need to be able to do things? And it’s a really valuable thing to do with all aspects of your business, your specific piece of advice for an agency owner in this sense when they haven’t hired yet, I think is spot on to determine what type of business you want. You know, do you want to grow into a team of 20, 30 people? Do you want a lifestyle business, where you have a couple of employees and you have an idea of the amount of work you can take on each month and don’t want to grow past that. I think that it is perfectly acceptable for agencies to have an idea of, you know, what is the maximum size they want to grow to? But at the same time, if that is not you and you want to grow to be as big as possible, set out goals for yourself, set out a timeline set out where you want to end up on.

Perry:

Generally speaking there’s two kinds of agency owners. There’s the creative agency owner who wants to be able to do a lot of creative work. And then there’s the sales and marketing agency owner that likes the types of client work that comes in from an agency, but is not gonna be the one who’s gonna deliver the end product. In these early days, if you’re a solo agency owner,  you’re gonna have to wear both those hats, which hat are you okay with? Taking off and giving to somebody else that’s gonna help you understand where to go higher as well. And I don’t know if you can hear on the other end, my kids are just running like crazy around this house. Apologies if that’s distracting anybody here.We got a nine year old and a almost seven year old. And they are ready to get back to school after a long fun summer.

Sam:

Hey man, that’s life, sometimes things come up and your life is not just the work you do. So totally understandable. One specific thing you pointed out was to understand your weaknesses and be able to backfill those weaknesses. I really liked your example about which hats you wanna wear. Do you want to be the person working with clients?  Do you wanna be the sales and marketing person Within those two jobs, there’s ultimately some other things that you need to do as an owner of an agency.  And I think that there’s pieces of that. Even if you’re not interested in hiring somebody full time, you can outsource, and you can have either hourly work or contract work done on those things. What are your takes for outsourcing? How do you find outsourcing help? What do you determine what’s better to outsource or what’s better to hire internally for?

Perry:

That’s a great question, Sam. Let’s work to break it down. I kind of view work in two different categories and this is how I drive my decision making on whether to outsource or to hire internally there’s project based work, which is, I need to think like an owner. I need to collaborate and work with a team on something in order to produce an outcome.For example, that can be a project manager, a sales representative, that could be a designer. And then there is. Task based work, which there’s some overlap, like a designer can do task based work as well. But if there is primarily a task, my job is to complete the task and I do not need to generally collaborate or you know be an owner to solve. This task, then that’s the other kind of work. And so for project kind of thinking work, that’s when you want to hire internally. Yes. You can outsource that. Yes. You can use a 10 99 contractor to do that. And in some cases that might be better, but long term,  you’re not gonna be able to create a culture in your organization. And you’re not gonna really be able to, necessarily you might be able to, but it’s gonna be much harder to build a sustainable long term business. Whereas task based work, that is the perfect thing to outsource. So that can be a design work. Absolutely. But things such as, you know, accounting. Or, or bookkeeping, that’s a perfect example of task based work. You can be doing your own books if you want, but as you’re trying to grow a business, you know, your time is super valuable here, right? You’re gonna be putting out fires, you’re gonna be interviewing, you’re gonna be hiring. You’re gonna be firing. You’re gonna be marketing. You’re doing sales. You know, you’re managing all that stuff as a business owner. And so when you think of like, what can I outsource anything? That’s task based. It can be outsourced effectively. We had a bookkeeper at Brighter Vision.  We were a mid seven figure a year business, but there was no need to have an internal bookkeeper. And especially now you can, you can find fractional based work. So if you need help on your P and LS, you can hire a fractional CFO to come in and help you for like 10, 15 hours to do your projections. So, you know, that’s kind of how I view things such as when to outsource versus when to hire in an agency, is this task based work?  that I can give someone a checklist. They can go through, check those things off and they are not an owner of this. They’re not going to ask questions. They’re not gonna necessarily go above and beyond to deliver a good client experience or is this project based work where someone’s going to be invested in, in the output that is going to be an owner and put their owner cap on. And that, that’s kind of how I would view whether to outsource or hire internally.

Sam:

That distinction between task based work and project based work is something I see as incredibly valuable.  because in my head it helps break down the differences between each and how you should be hiring for each and how you should be employing that additional help.  When you are looking to hire for project based work, how important is it to you? The person that you are hiring has an ability to think like an owner or at least evolve to take on more ownership of projects and things outside the initial job description over time.

Perry:

 In any organization, there’s going to be A employees, B employees, and maybe even a few C employees. Personally, I’m always wanting to hire people who will be owners and be able to take on more, but everyone’s got their own motivations, things in life that they are facing and, and obstacles to overcome. And so you’re never really gonna be able to, to pick that out perfectly, especially cuz hiring it’s so, so hard. But yeah, I mean, I really think it’s important that when, when you’re hiring you want somebody who’s going to be an owner.  it’s gonna make your life so much easier, but you’re not gonna know that necessarily before you hire them, you can ask questions to help piecemeal that out and, and pull the, that information out of them.

But you’re really never gonna know that in the end, until they’re in there and working for you.

Sam:

What are some of the things that you learned over time in your approach to the hiring process? Are there specific types of people that you would look for? Are there specific questions that you ask during the interview process that might be helpful for agency owners to know as they look to hire for that project based type of work?

Perry:

There were a lot of questions we asked that kind of pulled that out. I don’t have those questions on hand anymore, and maybe we could do a full episode on interview questions. Sometime soon here, Sam because I, I don’t have those questions on hand and there’s some really fantastic questions, but in terms of things I would really look for, you want someone who’s gonna be a good cultural fit. . And so it doesn’t really answer the ownership question, but who’s somebody that is gonna work in your culture and work to build this organization and is gonna be a team player in it. From an ownership perspective specifically.Gosh, I mean, we’d ask questions, like tell me about a time.  you were working on a project in a collaborative manner and the project failed or the outcome was less than desired. And tell us why that happened. And that’s not the exact language again, but like what we would look for in that kind of answer could somebody. Take ownership in a project or a collaborative experience, whether it’s internally with a client not hitting the goals, can they take ownership for it and would they not put blame on other people? And that was a pretty important distinction there. Cuz when, when people would start blaming others, for a project, not hitting the mark or a project shortcomings. That’s when we would really get concerned. Again, I’d love to do another episode together, man, where we can really dive into, you know, great interview questions for, for hiring in an agency, cuz man, we, we had some really solid ones and you know, I’d love to, to pull up that information again, to be able to share with our audience.

Sam:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think that that’s one that totally makes sense to have on the books, just because some of these questions that we were asking to people were instrumental, especially in the later days of our hirings.

Perry: 

Do you remember any really good ones, man?

Sam:

So one of my favorite all time questions to ask anybody in sales or marketing, instead of saying, sell me this pen, just teach me something, anything. And I love that question because not only the response, but the way the person responded. Told me a lot about the way that they think, cuz some people, when you would ask that question, they would get this deer in the headlights look. And they’re like, what? Like, I, I, why are you asking this other people would be like, oh yeah, sure. Okay. Let’s get into it. Let me teach you how to shoot a free throw.

Perry:

One thing I would love to ask people is how did you prepare for this interview? And then to follow up with that, we’d say, you know, tell me about brighter vision.  I remember this one time we had an interview. We said, tell us about brighter vision.  And it’s very clear for, you know, what we did is we did websites for therapists full stop. That was it. And so we had somebody come on and it was a video interview and the interview was great. It was a great interview. We’re like, I was thinking, man, we’re gonna hire this person. They’re gonna be fantastic in this role. And we’re like, well, tell, tell us about Brighter Vision and their response was something like they started hemming and hawing and I started getting nervous. I’m like, oh man, what, what what’s going on here? And that they were like, well, you do, you do websites, right? Yep. And yeah, you know, I, I don’t really know anything else. Sorry, I didn’t look at your website. What, like, you couldn’t even pull up our website, like you were doing a remote interview, at least pull up our website on your computer. Just read the headline right up there.  And again, we, I, I think we could have a fun, awesome episode on just talking about all the great interview questions you can ask to help you build your. But there’s a little bit of a teaser of what’s to come  for a later episode here.

Sam:

Absolutely. My final question on scaling up and getting additional help is what are the ways that you think an agency might be able to assess whether they have a bandwidth problem, meaning they simply need to hire more, or they have a process problem, meaning that there are things within their process of working that are broken and can be fixed by looking at things like software

Perry:

Well, let’s establish first that everyone has a process problem, right? Like, you know, no matter if, if you’re doing one website a month or you’re doing a hundred websites a month, everyone’s got a process problem that can be fixed from a bandwidth perspective. My feeling is that everyone should also have a bandwidth problem. Because if you don’t have a bandwidth problem, you don’t have enough business and there’s always gonna be this push and pull between, oh, I need to hire somebody cuz we have a bandwidth problem vs. we can’t hire somebody. Where are they going to find enough work? So, you know, it’s like this curve where, you know, if for those watching a video, they can see, you know, if this is, this is the amount of work that can be output in a, in a single month, you know, here’s that curve. And then eventually you’re gonna go over that curve and you’re gonna have a bandwidth problem. You’re gonna hire, you’re gonna drop back below that curve, but then hopefully your marketing’s coming. It’s gonna go back over that, that line there.  As you’re thinking about that, you’re always gonna hopefully have a bandwidth problem. You’re always gonna have a process problem. What our goal is with Motion.io is to make it so that your process problems are going away. You’re still gonna have some, you know, we’re not gonna be able to solve everything for you, but hopefully we’re gonna be able to solve a lot of the problems that relate to process. At least as it pertains to project delivery and collaboration, that then hopefully will make it. So you have less of a bandwidth problem and you can do more with fewer people.

Sam:

Fantastic. We will absolutely expand into specific hiring questions and things like that in subsequent episodes.

Perry:

Oh, I can’t wait for that, man. That’s gonna be fun.

Sam:

I’m looking forward to that one as well, but I think that that sort of push and pull between bandwidth and process is. In many ways reflective of what we’re doing [email protected] as this is your first week working, full-time in motion.io. I wanted to move on to our final sort of section within this episode. First, I wanna ask you the question of, what are you most excited about in the next couple months of working on Motion.io?

Perry:

Oh, gosh, what am I not excited about? Right. Like, I mean, I dude like seriously,  I just love these early days so much where, you know, in this case, it’s three of us. You, me, and our Co-founder Zach sitting in a garage basically, or, you know, our, our, our home offices and working nights and weekends to create something out of nothing going from zero to one is such an exciting piece for me, but in terms of what am I like really most excited about. Just to take a step back and give some context you know, I sold Brighter Vision, my agency about gosh, two years ago in six days it will actually be two years ago to the date. I worked for them for a year. Then I promised my wife that I was gonna spend time with the family and, you know, disconnect and give her a full summer.And so that we can do fun things as a family. And so I took a full year off to kind of recharge. It wasn’t a full year. Cause I guess we started this like talking about this six, seven months ago, but you know, I wasn’t really working. And so now, like getting back in the saddle again and working full time is super exciting to me. So everything, but really what I’m most excited about is talking with customers  figuring out where the nuances that we fit in and how we make sure that we’re building a product that is gonna really revolutionize their businesses and allow them.  to , build the business that they really want to build and live the lives that they want to live. And I think Motion.io is gonna be able to help make that happen for folks. And so I’m, I’m super excited about that.  If there’s anybody listening to this right now that we haven’t spoken with yet you know, we’d love to hear from you.  I want to chat with you. I want to understand what your problems are and the things you’re facing. We spent like Sam, I think in episode one, a lot of time talking  with agency owners to understand what their problems are.

Sam: 

Go to our website, fill out a contact form. We’d love to hear from you. One final question I wanted to cap off this first episode by asking you Perry, and this is a little bit more specific to you and I just because working together, I feel like we were always talking about is food: What restaurants we might go to while we were away. My question for you to end this first episode is what was the best thing you either cooked, meaning that you cooked it at home, or you ate, whether it was at a restaurant this week, what was it?

Perry:

This week? Well, oh my gosh. Geez. Well, alright, so.

For additional context for our listeners like Sam and I, like you said, Sam, I don’t think you even sold it fully. Like there was a period of time where I was spending more time with Sam on the road than I was with my wife. And we we’d go out to some really awesome restaurants and I need a lot of great food, but my favorite thing that I’ve cooked this week. Just the other day, I did a reverse sear pork chops. And I caramelized a bunch of onions, like about two onions. And then I kind of reduced things down into a nice gravy sauce. And then I. Roasted the pork chops in this onion, caramelized onion, gravy sauce at like 350 until they hit 145and  made some mashed potatoes and some collard greens on the side. It was fantastic.

Sam:

Well, first the reverse sear on the pork chops. That sounds crazy to me. I’ve done a reverse sea with steaks plenty of times, but never with the pork chop. So that is one that’s officially on my list now. I love sous-vide cooking as well. But if you don’t have a sous-vide, like, I mean, reverse searing it, I think reverse searing might even be better than soy in a lot of cases. So the best thing that I cooked this week, One of my good friends  just gave me the cookbook from Turkey and the Wolf, which is this really kind of funky sandwich shop in New Orleans. And at that sandwich shop, they have this wedge salad that is like no other wedge salad I’ve ever had. I got a chance to eat it in nNw Orleans, but it’s also in the cookbook. So I got the opportunity to make it this week. And it is. Luxurious sort of hybrid between a blue cheese dressing and a ranch dressing. And then you smother an entire half ahead of lettuce with it, iceberg lettuce. I will say I do love and this, yeah, it’s a wedge salad and this, this salad was just fantastic. So actually if there is some left, I’m probably gonna make it tonight.

Perry: 

You know, dude, I saw that in your Instagram story and was salivating over it. That thing looked fantastic.

Sam:

Yeah, well, now we both have things to make this week. I think I gotta try that reverse to your portrait. That sounds phenomenal. So cool that wraps it up for this first episode. I am really excited to have you with us here. Full time. Perry. I’ve been working full time in motion, you know, for a little more than a month. Perry’s joining me down here in the trenches and. We are in that garage type process of just working together and building it. Zach’s right there alongside us. We’re gonna have him on an episode coming up here soon. But yeah, really great to kick it off with you here, Perry and everybody be on the lookout for future episodes. Anything else you’d like to add before we head out here today?

Perry:

Thank you everybody for listening., especially in these early days, you know, joining us on this journey we’re, we’re building this for you. 

Sam:

Love it. See you next Thursday, everybody.

Sam:

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