Bootstrapping the Path to Four Successful Businesses

Overview:

Agency Owner, Entrepreneur, and SaaS Founder Payton Clark Smith joins Sam on the podcast. Payton shares his journey to owning four successful businesses, walks through the process of building his SaaS app, Semflow, and explains the invaluable life lessons that surviving cancer taught him.

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https://youtu.be/E8NtSldeSSo

Resources from Episode 34:

• Semflow - SEO Plugin for Webflow
• Payton's YouTube Channel
• Payton's Instagram
• Try Motion.io for Free

Episode 34 Transcript:

[00:00:00] Sam Chlebowski: Where do you see the future ofyour various businesses going? Where are you wanting to invest your time themost over the next year?

[00:00:09] Payton Clark Smith: I've got a coupledifferent priorities. I certainly want to grow my businesses. But my highestpriority has always been like, I want to give my people a place to work alwaysbecause I love working with them.

[00:00:23] And so that has beena worry. And people have asked me and commented about this, like, oh, you know,your launched on these businesses. Are you gonna phase out your agency? And Idon't, ever plan to, not, unless I have a place for all my team to land,whether that's, you know, having them full-time on my, my other products orthings.

[00:00:39] In the short term,we are trying to grow Semflow, which is our SaaS. We're trying to grow that asquickly as possible and I would love to see that get acquired. But either way,I don't want to ever get more busy. I don't ever wanna have to spend more timeaway from my kids or my family, I couldn't ask for a whole lot more right now,and I have to constantly remind myself that because know, I wake up everymorning, I'm like, oh, I just wanna take over the world today, and I want to beputting out content and reaching millions and doing all this stuff. And then I haveto remind myself that's not really what I want. What I really want is, I've gotright now.

[00:01:12] Sam Chlebowski: Happy Thursday everybody, andwelcome back to Designing Growth. My name is Sam Chlebowski, host of thispodcast and one of three co-founders at Motion.io. Today on the podcast, I amvery excited to have Payton Smith with us. Payton is a web designer andentrepreneur and a founder of three different six figure businesses.

[00:01:42] Peyton runs anagency -- Pait Digital; an education platform -- which is PaitPro and an SEO coursewhich talks all about SEO and Webflow. But in addition to that, and what youwere actually just talking to me a little before we hit the record button here,is that you also just released a SaaS product that helps web developers with SEO,and it integrates directly in Webflow.

[00:02:03] My first question isjust a quick, you know, how are you doing today? And then I do want to getright into talking about this SaaS product that you've released, because thatsounds really cool. And I would love to learn more about this.

[00:02:13] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah. Absolutely. Well,thank you for having me. it's always fun just to come in and, talk to somebodythat knows about my life. Right. Kind of what we do is, uh, it's unique andit's fun and, yeah, like you said, you know, we just launched this SaaS here.It's been a couple months now. But that's one thing that I love about my job asa web designer, is you pretty much have the skills and experience to chase anyopportunity or idea, right?

[00:02:38] Because we spend somuch of our time building our clients' businesses, started as a web designerand then I decided I need to learn seo. And then along the way you learncopywriting and you learn how to communicate with people. And then, All of asudden, I, I reached a point where I was like, Hey, I wanna, I wanna maybebuild a product of my own so I can use my expertise and experience and also myteam to build this up.

[00:02:59] And so that's kindhow this SaaS product started. We are a, webflow exclusive agency and we do alot of seo. And so I felt like that was the perfect product for us to build Itdidn't exist in the webflow. World. There was no sort of yos type plugin for webflow.And so we built it out and it's been a whirlwind of, you know, making everymistake in the book just because I have no experience in the SAS world, butalso it's just been so exciting to have a product of my own.

[00:03:29] it's so fun. And we,uh, yeah, we've grown to, I think we've had over a thousand downloads now.We've got, know, awesome feedback from people. We're constantly reiterating andtrying to improve this thing, but it's been my favorite thing that I've everbuilt by far.

[00:03:43] Sam Chlebowski: That is amazing. And youactually touched on,

[00:03:46] part of what I wasgonna ask with what yos is to WordPress, is this like the sort of, yo, for lackof better words for Webflow, and I love that you a need. Within something thatyou were doing, but also something that your customers needed and went for it.

[00:04:02] I mean, that is likeproduct development 1 0 1. You find that hair on fire problem and you go andsolve it. It sounds like, you all have, you know, reached a enormous amount ofsuccess with this product already. With the product, is it a plugin? Is it adownload? are you currently charging for it?

[00:04:18] How, how does thatall working?

[00:04:19] Payton Clark Smith: We are. Yep. So it is aGoogle Chrome extension currently that is, The only way to have this sort ofsoftware that works inside of Webflow. And so, you download it on the GoogleChrome store. It is a subscription. It's $15 a month. Um, it has a free trial,but yeah, once you download that Chrome plugin, and shows up right inside theWebflow designer.

[00:04:42] So you can't tellthat it's not native. It, matches web flow's, brand and style, and, it's reallyslick. yeah, We've got a lot of people that were early adopters and justselected to go with an annual plan and, that is so cool to have people thatsupport this type of adventure that I've been on cause I just don't know whatI'm doing.

[00:05:01] Right. And, youknow, you get these early adopters that are willing to try the product, giveyou feedback, they're patient when things don't work. But over the past couplemonths we've really kind of got it dialed in and it has grown like a wildfire.And I think it's for that very reason that you said it.

[00:05:15] We didn't go intothis thinking, how can we make a product that makes us money? But it was just asolution that every day I wished I had. And so I almost had this mentality ofeven if nobody else uses this, I'm gonna love it. And that was enough for me topursue it. I think that that approach has really paid off.

[00:05:30] Sam Chlebowski: that story. I think you'veheard it. So many times before when it comes to software development, wherepeople build tools cuz it's things that they wanted a solution to, even fortheir own business, if nothing else. And immediately there's people there that,

[00:05:45] find value in it andare willing to

[00:05:46] become earlyadopters.

[00:05:48] Put up with, youmaybe

[00:05:49] not having a hundredpercent of the features, the occasional bug, but because the core of theproduct is providing so much value, you can improve on it. You iterate it overtime and you make it into this perfect tool for this subset of people. Onequestion I wanted to ask you I think that there's probably a lot of people wholisten to this podcast that are interested in software development, they'reinterested in building things.

[00:06:11] There's so manydifferent options now. Between all of the no-code options, and all of thedifferent ways to build software these days. How did you go about the processof starting to build this? Did you hire developers? Did you use, a certainplatform to build it yourself?

[00:06:27] What did thatprocess look like when you said, Hey, we're ready to build this?

[00:06:30] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah, that's really wheremy experience as a web designer. Really came into play is I had met so manyawesome, talented people. And so the way that I found my developer, cuzcertainly like, I'm not, smart enough to have developed this tool on my own.you know, I just threw a message out in my, team, slack channel and said, doesanybody know a good developer? And we connected it was an interesting projectearly on because there's really no documentation.

[00:06:54] About how to buildthis type of tool that integrates with Webflow. it wasn't all cut and pastelike a lot of development projects are, and so I had this very rough design ofwhat I wanted it to look like, but we were all learning together certainlylarge time investment.

[00:07:09] Definitely a largefinancial investment, but in kind of the grand scheme of things. Looking atthis tool where it's at, I'm like, man, it only took maybe six months to build.the financial investment might have seemed like a lot up front, but within, thefirst two months we made our money back and then it's really just pure cashflow that we can throw right back into the tool to improve it.

[00:07:30] And so it really hasbeen like the ideal process, pretty quick to market. Pretty quick to becomeprofitable and then cash flow to reinvest and improve it. that cycle is just, Imean, like, it just compounds and, and it's like a snowball, the more users youget, the more funds you have and feedback you have to improve it, and it's justfaster and faster.

[00:07:51] Asked her.

[00:07:51] Sam Chlebowski: It's amazing

[00:07:52] how long has it beenpublicly available?

[00:07:54] Payton Clark Smith: So I think we launched ourbeta in like very end of November, early December. and, quite frankly, wedidn't really do. Any marketing, I put out a YouTube video that just said, Hey,like, here's a little tool that we built. Check it out.

[00:08:09] And it's pretty muchbeen word of mouth. We've got a few affiliates, but that really proved marketfit there, that it just, grew on its own. only in these past couple weeks havewe started truly advertising, pumping out content, working closely with ouraffiliates. And so, The growth really accelerate even over the last two weeks,which has been really exciting to see.

[00:08:29] Sam Chlebowski: so how big is the team onthat? Is it still just you and the one developer, or have you brought on otherpeople to assist in, you know, aspects of the

[00:08:38] product, marketing,customer success?

[00:08:40] what's that looklike currently?

[00:08:41] Payton Clark Smith: Mm-hmm. think because thisthing is so bootstrapped, I've just kind of used what I had available. So it's,The developer and myself. And before this I was very much out of design, right?I was more in like a managerial, like higher level type stuff. But I've reallyloved designing this. So I've designed the entire thing on my own.

[00:08:59] and then we havethat SEO manager introduced me to my developer. He's. Super talented and so hehas kind of been a go-between just to give feedback, testing he's brought a tonof value to that. And then I've got my project manager, I mean, I call him aproject manager.

[00:09:15] He's kind of just myright hand and he has kind of just filled in where needed. He's filled insupport request, he's. Given feedback, he's tested the product. Um, and sothat's kind of our immediate team. And then I have kind of my secondary teamwhere I've got, a gal who manages all of our affiliates now, and she is anawesome communicator.

[00:09:35] And so we'restarting to bring in more kind of part-time roles like that that we're growing,but not, overreaching or overstepping in terms of like how big our team needsto be because. These types of SaaS products. That's what's so great about 'em,is you can have super lean, tiny team and still make a huge impact.

[00:09:52] Sam Chlebowski: I mean, I love it and I lovebootstrapping something, keeping it nice and lean. Our team right now is justme and my two co-founders. Then we have one other, developer that

[00:10:01] works with us and

[00:10:03] honestly, it'llprobably stay that way for a little bit longer until we're really ready to kindof turn on the gas. And it seems like, you are just right about at that stagewhere you are, kind of scaling things up and that's exciting. I also think too,like your methodology behind product development and bootstrapping this andkeeping it super lean is a lot of what I share.

[00:10:23] One thing that stoodout to me, and one thing I actually just wanted to pick your brain about, evenif it's just for like my own personal insights, your affiliate program, how didyou shape that and what does that look like? Like what's working well, withyour affiliate program? Where do you see the value there?

[00:10:39] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah, so I didn't have awhole lot of knowledge behind what makes a great affiliate program, and the onething that I wanted to. Do is make sure that it was extremely generous, guessthe two most important things is that they like and believe in the product.

[00:10:53] That makes it mucheasier to promote and then that you've got generous commissions, right? If, ifsomebody's getting five bucks, 10 bucks, one time commission, nobody's gonnawanna push that. And so we set up a recurring lifetime commission. And we justdid this all through, a software, I think it's called Reward Full, that workswith Stripe.

[00:11:11] And so yeah, I justthrew it out there and, didn't promote it, didn't ask anyone to be an affiliatereally. I just, had that page on our side and, people quickly signing up. Wedidn't do any follow up with our affiliates until just recently when I, gotsomebody to fill that role of, Hey, you know, you're a new affiliate, here's.

[00:11:27] a content package ofthings you can post will help you with YouTube scripts, like different thingslike that to encourage them to take action once they become an affiliate. Andactually it's funny that you asked that because just this morning I came acrossa Google ad promoting Selo from one of our affiliates and I'm like, cool,People are even running paid promotions to push this thing.

[00:11:48] And, all comes backto generous commissions and helping people feel like they're in a way, kind ofa, co-owner in this, that they benefit as much as we do.

[00:11:56] Sam Chlebowski: There were two things inparticular that you shared there I think in some ways seem obvious like, oh ofcourse this would work for an affiliate program, but really is not in a lot ofways the first thing you mentioned, the generosity. I think that that is a bigpiece that so many affiliate programs miss out on.

[00:12:13] a lot of affiliateprograms where it's like, oh, refer X number of people and get a t-shirt, get asweatshirt. what people really want at the end of the day is, a commission fortaking that time out of their day to produce that content, to send someone yourway especially to a tool that they believe in.

[00:12:29] you know, they dowant monetary value if you're not doing that and you're kind of tentative to dothat, It's not gonna work I think that people are sometimes afraid of like, oh,well if I'm giving commissions for this product, especially something asgenerous as a lifetime commission, it cuts into the value and I can never get apositive return on that.

[00:12:47] but to me it's allabout your lifetime value that customer that they refer? And as long as you'vedone the math here's how much I profit minus the cost of paying out thiscommission if, that math works, you can really provide a win-win for everybody.

[00:13:02] The second piece wasproviding all of that information to the affiliates. That's something I'venever done that I think is a phenomenal idea. I think you said like, here's howyou can create YouTube scripts. Here's, assets you can use to promote theproduct. I love that the easier that you can make it for somebody to take thattime out of their day and create these things happier everybody's gonna be.

[00:13:22] Payton Clark Smith: Absolutely. you Know, youhit it right on the head where it's just that win-win scenario, and if you cancreate that, then everybody feels good and, I actually learned this lesson hererecently, I reached out to somebody that has a, course that fits perfectly inmy content, and it's not a course that I ever planned on making.

[00:13:38] And so I reached outand said, I'd love to be an affiliate. I'd love to promote this. Like I, I tookthe course, it's great, and this person responded and said, yeah, you know, wecan give you a 10% one-time commission. And I just was kind of put off by that.But what I didn't realize is, The way that this course in business was run,their margins were so slim they couldn't afford to give any more than 10%.

[00:14:00] And so first off,like I shouldn't have been so I guess surprised or put off by that. But I veryquickly learned that like, Hey, I wanna build a business that the margins are alot larger. then if I have kind of this mentality of abundance where. Rather thantrying to pocket every dime that this generates, putting everything back intomy affiliates back into improving the tool, then you're more focused on thegrowth of the product and the community around it, rather than just your owncash flow.

[00:14:27] And, you know, I, Ithink being generous with your affiliates. makes it a no-brainer. And thenafter they sign up, you deliver 'em this huge package of, Hey, just copy andpaste this and post it on Instagram. don't even have to do the work. It's like,who wouldn't wanna be part of this? And seems to be working so far.

[00:14:44] pretty good for us.

[00:14:45] Sam Chlebowski: If the dollars make sense, thecents make dollars.

[00:14:47] Payton Clark Smith: I love it.

[00:14:48] Sam Chlebowski: of the things I wanted to dohere too is just like run it back a little bit and talk about, how you got herein the first place. So I know that you have, these three businesses and thenyou've just released this SAS product. You have your YouTube channel, was thefoundation, all of that, your agency.

[00:15:05] Payton Clark Smith: It was, yep. When Istarted out, I was a college student that school and I was trying to figure outwhat I wanted to do. I had a summer sales job and. just wasn't getting anytraction in school and, and I finally kind of gave into the fact that I'vealways been creative and like designing.

[00:15:21] Started designinglogos, then websites and started bringing on a couple clients, which weremostly just like friends and family, which is how a lot of us start. And I gotmarried the end of college and luckily my wife kind of helped drag me throughthe finish line of, graduating college.

[00:15:37] But by that point Ihad. A few clients and I thought I was hot stuff cuz I was making money on myown. And I just said, I, I don't want to go get a normal job, I just want todive right into this. And so we lived poor for at least the first year, twoyears of marriage. But it just started to gain traction.

[00:15:52] you know, I wasspending of the money that I made aside from what we needed to survive oncourses and, education and mentors. And I was reading. Every book that I couldget my hands on, and I was watching every YouTube video I could, and all ofthat led to, hey, like charge more for your websites and start learning andcharging for seo.

[00:16:10] And all of a suddenI was overwhelmed with the work. And so I hired people. I started hiring adesigner and I hired my SEO manager who already had an SEO team trained up, andit just moved so fast while at the time it felt like, man, like I am justhustling every day and nothing's happened.

[00:16:27] And then all of asudden, you know, six months, 12 months later, I've got a team around me. And,from there, man, it's like once you get that team to a lot of the busy work andthe work that burns through your creative energy, was able to take a step backand say, wanna start creating YouTube content.

[00:16:44] And then peoplestarted asking me how I did what I do. And so I started taking consultingcalls, which gave me the content to create a course. And, and it all just kindof, presented itself to me as, the timing was right. And, that's exactly whathappened with the SAS product as well. felt like they just built on top of eachother.

[00:17:02] And, and one thingthat we don't have to. Get into too deep. But this was kind of a definingmoment in my life that really helped me decide where I wanna spend my time. Andmy effort was at the end of 2021, I was diagnosed with cancer, Hodgkinlymphoma. And so quickly I found myself in the middle of chemotherapy and I wasjust deathly sick and I couldn't work for six months.

[00:17:25] And so I had to.Rely on my team members and my systems and I couldn't create content. And Ispent six months with whatever energy I had, just like thinking, what am Igonna do when I'm back on my feet? And about seven months later, I finishedchemo. Took me a few more months kind of get my energy back, and then I justhit it as hard as I could.

[00:17:46] We launched ourSaaS, I launched my membership. And I did all of that while trying to only workabout half a day so I could spend more time with my family. And that was justlike the critical turning point where I felt like I found the perfect balanceto get everything done that I wanted, and also just enjoy life and not workmyself to death like I was before that time.

[00:18:05] Sam Chlebowski: Man, first of all, I wanna saycongratulations. to go through all of that and come out on the other side. justhearing that brings me to tears, man. And I imagined like this had to beterrifying in the middle of a pandemic.

[00:18:17] to also have cancerand also be. Worried about your business and thinking about your business, butto come out of that on the other side with this amazing mindset that isbasically like, okay, I do want to grow. I do want to work, but how do I dothese things in a way that doesn't burn me out and allows me to spend more timewith the people that I love the most?

[00:18:40] that mindset islike, it's. Amazing. It's amazing to hear man.

[00:18:45] Payton Clark Smith: Well, thank you. Yeah. YouI think anybody could say this about our trials, right? Like if you let 'em,they make you better. and I'm certainly grateful for the things that I learned,especially that balance of, life, right? Like Work's always gonna be there.Money's always gonna be there.

[00:19:00] you can, chase thosethings every day of your life. But, you know, I've, got two little boys, andthey're never gonna be this age again. And I think I felt so robbed during thattime of, chemo that I just, didn't feel good enough to spend good time withthem. so when I got back, I just told myself like, I'm never gonna say no.

[00:19:15] Right? Like, I'mnever gonna say no to. What they want to do. And so it doesn't matter if I'vegot a huge launch day or I've got, you know, important calls or whatever. It'slike, yesterday we went bowling in the middle of the day and you know, they'realways knocking on my door wanting to do a, light saber battle or whatever itis they want to do.

[00:19:30] I'm like, yeah, likeI can only do this today, but I can work when you are out of the house and incollege. that's always gonna be there. And so, That mentality has, definitelyjust made work more enjoyable. Cause I do what I can, knowing that that'sreally not as important as we all make it out to be.

[00:19:46] Sam Chlebowski: It's especially really greatadvice for me, in particular hearing this because how old are your boys?

[00:19:51] Payton Clark Smith: Oliver just turned fiveand Atticus is two.

[00:19:54] Sam Chlebowski: Very cool. we just had ourfirst child in January,

[00:19:58] um,

[00:19:59] So it's like some ofthese things and when I'm kind of in the middle of it right now, launching thiscompany, this SAS product, it's a really great reminder for me in a reallypowerful reminder for me in a lot of ways to Spend the time and that work isalways gonna be there.

[00:20:14] You can always worklonger, you can always work later. it's never gonna end. But you know what willend is the time that you have with your family when they're in the house andyour kids are growing up So thank you

[00:20:25] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah, man, no problem.It's, uh, pretty cool life that we get to live, that we can work on ourcomputers and, be around, and so we might as well take advantage of that,right.

[00:20:32] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:33] One of the things Iwanted to circle back around on and talk about, cuz you had mentioned, youknow, as part of this story, when you were in the hospital recovering, you hadto really lean on your team and. I wanted to ask you, because I think that thisis something that a lot of other business owners struggle with.

[00:20:49] How did you go aboutdeveloping

[00:20:51] those processes,developing those systems that allowed your team to operate autonomously withoutyou and be able to keep the trains running on time, even if you weren't there?

[00:21:03] Payton Clark Smith: That's an awesomequestion. I would say that that has been a weak point. In my growth and, myleadership and I have been extremely lucky to have awesome people on my team. Ithink, first and foremost, I would say that it's not due to that I did, thatbeing said, trusting in, people and kind of giving them the framework tosucceed, but then also letting them go.

[00:21:27] And fail and puttingthem in situations where, hey, like, you've gotta meet with this client becauseI'm, I'm in the hospital today. And, people step up. People step up when yougive them those opportunities and when you trust them. I think also again, kindof going back to that, to be generous and in the way that you pay people. Therehave been times where that's burnt me, but generally speaking, that has alwayspaid off. Like, don't cheap out on people. If anything, you should overpaypeople and, try to, motivate them to work up to that level. those things just,they seem to work out in your favor, right?

[00:21:59] Because people aremore motivated, they want to do more for you. And like I said, I've been reallyfortunate to have people that I hired kind of first try and they just workedout. And I know that doesn't always happen, but also I think so much of. thequality of your people kind of falls back on you.

[00:22:14] And it's areflection of you in a lot of ways. And, think I've learned a lot along theway, but man, you've gotta get people around you cuz you can't do it all onyour own.

[00:22:22] Sam Chlebowski: of your points there that ifyou're generous, people will be generous in return. That's something I totallysubscribe to. , if you are generous with your employees, you're paying themwell. They feel like you are really helping them, and they in return are reallyhave your back.

[00:22:37] They're gonna be theones that when something comes up, not saying that, you need to make peoplework all hours of the night and stuff like that, but when something does comeup, They're gonna be the one willing to step up and get it done for you ifyou're not able to. And they're the ones who stop thinking like employees andstart thinking like owners, where they are saying to themselves, how can wemake this better?

[00:22:59] How can we improve thisproduct? How can we make our customers happier? And those types of people, whenyou can surround yourself with them, are just invaluable in my opinion.

[00:23:08] Payton Clark Smith: Absolutely, man. peopleare more talented than, we give them credit for. And I think that's one of myweaknesses especially early on, I thought, I can't trust them to do this. LikeI've just gotta do it myself. And most of the time when you step back and letthem do it, They'll surprise you and do it better than even you could, and youjust gotta give 'em that chance.

[00:23:24] Sam Chlebowski: So with all of this, where doyou see the future of, your various businesses and all of this stuff going?Where are you wanting to invest your time the most over the next year?

[00:23:36] Payton Clark Smith: I've got a coupledifferent priorities. I certainly want to grow my businesses that could beclassified more as an asset, right? My SaaS company, things like that thatmaybe aren't so reliant on people because those are typically the things thatare more properly set up for an exit. But my highest priority has always been wantingto give my people a place to work always because I love working with them.

[00:24:02] And so that has beenworry. And people have asked me and commented about this, like “oh, you know,your launched on these businesses. Are you gonna phase out your agency?” And Idon't ever plan to, not unless I have a place for all my team to land --whether that's, you know, having them full-time on my, other products orthings.

[00:24:19] And so think I'lltry to maintain that balance in the short term, we are trying to grow Semflow,which is our SaaS. We're trying to grow that as quickly as possible and I wouldlove to see that get acquired,

[00:24:30] I don't know if thecards, but, but either way, I don't want to ever get more busy. don't everwanna have to spend more time away from my kids or my family, I couldn't askfor a whole lot more right now, and I have to constantly remind myself thatbecause know, I wake up every morning, I'm like, oh, I just wanna take over theworld today, and I wanna, be putting out content and reaching millions anddoing all this stuff. And then have to remind myself that's not really what Iwant. What I really want is, I've got right now.

[00:24:56] And, I'll try tokeep reminding myself that as much as possible because, talked about before,like the most important phases of life right now. And so, I don't really carewhere these businesses go as long as I feel good about my efforts in them.

[00:25:08] Sam Chlebowski: Amazing. So Payton, thank youso much for your time. This has been an awesome chat and quite honestly,incredibly inspiring and insightful for me, personally. So thank you again foryour time. Wanna wrap it up here with two final questions? One business one,one fun, one first question.

[00:25:24] If people want tolearn more about you and the work that you are doing, where should they go?

[00:25:29] Payton Clark Smith: Best place to find me ison YouTube @paytonclarksmith. That's where I am the most active. I have alsobeen trying to be a little bit better on Instagram my handle is the same --@paytonclarksmith. I’m trying to be better at responding to individualmessages, dms, emails.

[00:25:45] Because I had a lotof great people that, uh, were willing to do that for me early on. So yeah,hope y'all can find me and I can some value.

[00:25:51] Sam Chlebowski: Amazing. And we will put linksto all of those things in the show notes of this episode. And now for the funone. What are some of your favorite all-time movies and TV shows?

[00:26:01] Payton Clark Smith: Ooh, that is a greatquestion. My wife and I, we, we love to watch lot of tv, but our favorite TVshow would definitely have to be how I Met Your Mother. That is an all-timefavorite of ours.

[00:26:13] And then movies, Uh,recent movies.

[00:26:17] I loved Top GunMaverick that is an awesome movie. I would say my all-time favorite would haveto be the Dark Night. Those Batman movies are as good as they get.

[00:26:29] Sam Chlebowski: The dark night when thosemovies came out, I think I must have been probably in high school, maybe but Iloved those movies, man. Christopher Nolan ever decided that he wanted to comeback and direct another Batman movie, or really any Superman movie, I would beall over it.

[00:26:44] Payton Clark Smith: Oh yeah, dude, those wereso good. And, and those are ones that I could watch. Over and over again andnever get sick of 'em.

[00:26:49] Sam Chlebowski: and the newest one. You know,I thought it was good, but it didn't really encapsulate that like same energyas, I'll call it the original trilogy. Now we're talking about it like it'sStar Wars or fine wine, but, uh, yeah.

[00:27:01] Payton Clark Smith: I don't ever see myselfliking a, a superhero movie or, definitely not a Batman movie more than those,so.

[00:27:07] Sam Chlebowski: Hey, you got somebody on yourside here too because I fully agree.

[00:27:10] Payton Clark Smith: Awesome. Well man, yeah, thanksagain for having me. This has been fun to chat and I'd love to be on anothertime.

[00:27:14] Sam Chlebowski: Fantastic. Yeah, we'lldefinitely have you on again in the future and get an update about all of thethings that you're doing and how things are going. So thank you so mucheverybody. If you enjoyed this episode of Designing Growth, we would love it ifyou went ahead on Apple or Spotify and left us a five-star review.

[00:27:31] Until next time,everybody, my name is Sam Chlebowski, host of Designing Growth. Have fun, goodluck, and go crush it.