Rebranding a Brand & Web Design Business

Overview:

Rebranding a brand and web design business might seem easy, but can present some unique challenges. In the first Designing Growth episode of 2023, Sam speaks with the owner and founder of Honey Creative, Andi Dunn. Andi shares what she's learned after nearly a decade of running her brand and web design agency and talks through how her team approached Honey Creative's recent brand redesign.

Resources from Episode 23:

• Honey Creative Website
• Honey Creative Instgram
• Andi's TikTok
• Waggle - Honey Creatives' Small Business Resources
• Motion.io TikTok Account

Episode Transcript:

[Designing Growth introduction plays]

[00:00:00] Sam Chlebowski: Happy Thursday, everybody. Andmore importantly, happy new year.

[00:00:15] In this week'sepisode, we have a really great guest joining us, Andi Dunn from HoneyCreative. Honey Creative is a design agency that started as a one woman show in2015 to deliver. Good design to good businesses and honey Creative is now ahoney hive, a team of four powerhouse women that are incredibly talented andall around good ass people.

[00:00:36] Honey Creativefocuses on channeling their individual expertise into providing high quality,robust offerings while still keeping an intimate experience with every clientthey work with, brand positioning, new website design, and all of the otherstuff that is going to get your brand, your business, or your nonprofit infront of more people.

[00:00:52] So, Andi, how youdoing?

[00:00:53] Andi Dunn: I'm doing well. Thank you so much,Sam, for uh, having me. I'm really excited. That was such a great intro.Usually I have to manage the elevator pitch, so that was beautiful. Thank you.

[00:01:02] Sam Chlebowski: Thank you. It is somethingI've had a little bit of practice on by now

[00:01:06] Before I had thispodcast, I used to, in a previous business, do like live webinars with a guest,and I was always scrambling last minute because nobody would send me their bioinformation. So I'd go and create that by using my internet sleuthingabilities.

[00:01:19] So I've gottenpretty good at stitching together, things like that, that I can find on theinternet. thank you for the kind words.

[00:01:24] Andi Dunn: Yeah, that was fantastic.

[00:01:26] Sam Chlebowski: So to start off the episodehere, I just wanna dig into your expertise and your story a little bit more.Something I asked to a lot of guests on this pod because it's reallyinteresting for me, and I think it's really helpful for other people listeningto this show, from launching your design business to where you are now, whatdid that process look like? Could you give me a sort of 10,000 foot view of howyou got to where you are now?

[00:01:47] Andi Dunn: I don't think we have quite enoughtime to go full blown detail into everything, but as far as kind of a bird'seye perspective of how I came to start Honey and really get more involved with,with design as a business. . I began my career as a designer when I worked forthe University of Kentucky.

[00:02:06] I was a part of, um,a team that worked for the Arts and sciences department, which was really nice.So we had the opportunity to create in a I'll say low stress environment. So wewere just developing out assets for professors and, you know, whatever coursethey were featuring that, season.

[00:02:22] And so we wereactually called the hives. So me and two teammates at the time kind of set out.We had been having conversations for a while about, you know, I think, we couldabsolutely do this ourselves. Let's give it a shot. So, In thinking throughnaming, we thought, well, what's a product of the Hive and honey?

[00:02:39] So that's kind ofwhere the name started off. But even before that, I've had a, a big interestactually in visual art. So I really love hand illustration as well. So that's abig part of what we provide clients in this moment. I honestly didn't reallythink that I would be a graphic designer. I thought that I would do moretraditional visual art, drawing, painting, that sort of thing, but, really,coming to understand what that pressure would look like on a day-to-day basis.

[00:03:04] I didn't want tokind of harp, my, creativity. So graphic design felt like a natural evolution.So I actually don't have a degree in design, which people are typicallysurprised about, but my university didn't offer it. , but I do have, you know,kind of a general communications or marketing focus, and then minors inphilosophy in Italian, which are not very useful at all.

[00:03:26] But, I tell peoplethat college was a great experience and I wouldn't take that away, even thoughI don't necessarily use my degree day-to-day. So that's kind of my personalbackground and interest in how I, I came to own.

[00:03:38] Sam Chlebowski: Very cool, and it's something interestingfor me to hear. I'm kind of saying to myself in the back of my head, I majoredin political science and advertising, so the advertising thing, That kind ofcircled back around, it definitely got shifted into doing advertising at a bigagency versus doing it for a startup, which is a very different thing than likeworking at an advertising firm.

[00:03:59] But there's stillpieces of that in there and I always find that really interesting. So you hadbeen working with some of the people you were working with in college, Ibelieve you said

[00:04:08] You all startedHoney Creative.

[00:04:10] Andi Dunn: Right. Yeah. So they ended upleaving shortly after, um, between six months and 12 months into officiallybeing an llc. It was just, A combination of reasons. You know, like o owning abusiness is really hard, , and there's a, a challenge associated with it and Icertainly don't hold that against them at all.

[00:04:29] And you know, Ithink one went on to, to continue education and the other one went on for moreof like a, a regular salaried position with, predictable income , if you'll,so, we started out as, uh, a partnership and. It. was just me for quite sometime. And then within the last probably two to three years, I started to expandthe team a little bit more.

[00:04:49] Sam Chlebowski: And especially right outtaschool to be launching your business, trying to figure everything out, and thenyou lose some partners along the way. That had to be really challenging

[00:04:58] Andi Dunn: Oh, it was terrifying. . one ofthem was the web developer for the team, and he actually left in the middle ofa project, so I kind of had to. manage that client relationship and try tosalvage the project as a whole. that was very stressful. And at the time, Ithink I just viewed it as the services that they were providing and how thatwould, create a gap or a hole in the way that we were trying to present honeyat the time.

[00:05:21] But in hindsight, Ireally, do think it was more of the relationship side of it. Like I. Was cominginto it with a team, you know, like misery loves company. So it was nice tohave people to commiserate with and, and kind of talk through some of the hardertimes, or even just brainstorming pricing or contracts.

[00:05:37] The things that Ifelt were really closed off and there wasn't a lot of information out there atthe time. So, I mean, this was almost 10 years ago, so, it still is relativelygatekeeper, but I think that there are a lot of really great resources nowadaysversus when, you know, we were just trying to figure it out as we go.

[00:05:53] Sam Chlebowski: and It's so impressive thatyou've been able to stick with it for 10 years now. I mean, what is thatstatistic like?

[00:05:58] Less than fivepercent of businesses make it past that 10 year mark.

[00:06:02] Andi Dunn: Right. Yeah. So I mean, officiallywe're about seven and a half years, but personally I've been doing design for,for over a decade. honestly forget about that all the time. certain days itfeels like it was yesterday. Other days it feels like it's been, you know, 20years.

[00:06:16] So it just dependson, on when you would ask me. kind of feels like a time warp. The first fewyears, and then I tell my clients this all the time. I think there's thispressure, it's like starting college. there's this assumption that you have to.Choose your major. You have to decide on what you wanna do for the rest of yourlife.

[00:06:32] But like your 18year olds who don't know what the hell they're doing, you know, . So it'soverwhelming. There's a lot of options. I call it like the toothpaste problem.You go down a toothpaste aisle and there's like a million different choices,but they all kind of do the same thing. And so starting out your business inthose first early years is very much the.

[00:06:50] you're trying tofigure out a lot of the actual business strategy while still building a brand,which in my opinion are two very different things. And so to place a lot ofpressure on having it all together and, putting across this appearance likeyou, you know exactly what you're doing. I have always been under theimpression that honesty and transparency of both your shortcomings and yourexpertise are just as I.

[00:07:13] Sam Chlebowski: I couldn't agree more.Something that was taught to me by my mentor and now co-founder. Under promiseoverdeliver, and that's something that's been drilled into me from firsthandexperience in seeing how effective that is. Honesty, transparency, settingexpectations are so important in business.

[00:07:31] Andi Dunn: Right, exactly. Because then peopleare really surprised and they're like, wow, I think there's some old adagethat's like, the only person that can set expectations is yourself. you have anopportunity to either overperform or underdeliver, and that's kind of yourdecision.

[00:07:47] So, . I really tryto encourage that, especially early on in a relationship with a client and withmy team members. You know, like I, I'm not over here faking being a leader thatI don't know how to be. I, I'm very honest with them about like, Hey, this isreally scary and . I don't know what to do, but I'm tapping in to you guys and,your experiences to help

[00:08:06] collectively make adecision or, creatively come up with the solution or ideas for a particular.

[00:08:12] Sam Chlebowski: Switching gears a little bit. Iknow you just did a website redesign for your own business along with a brandredesign. What was that process like and how did you decide that it was time toredesign and rebrand? Honey Creative.

[00:08:26] Andi Dunn: Oh my gosh. that process wasgrueling. I'm not gonna lie, , we're our own worst critics as designers, Ithink. it is hard to be satisfied and to feel satisfied with your own work,with client work, as long as they're happy and we've got at a goal that they'recontent with that success.

[00:08:42] But when it comes toyour own work and deciding for yourselves, number one, it's hard to prioritize.Like it's nearly, IM. To not place client work over your own because you know,that's what's paying the bills. So it took a lot longer than I think anyone onthe team really thought. But we tried to go at the process at a pace that feltreasonable and that left us still feeling inspired.

[00:09:05] You know, you canget burnout just as much from client work as you can from personal, kind ofinternal work as well. We did some extensive kind of audience analysis. Werevisited who we actually wanted to work with because up until that point, ithad just been me calling the shots and now I had to consider, who collectivelydo we really value?

[00:09:23] Instead of theprojects rolling in and getting overly excited about, oh man, I would love todesign for a coffee shop or a candle company. Like in my opinion, I think thepeople that you work with are much. informative of your day to day and, andkind of how you operate versus like a really exciting project because if thepeople behind your email are crappy or you know, they aren't great to work withthat says a lot more.

[00:09:46] in any case, we kindof established who we wanted to work with. We went through red and green flagsof what that really looks like. And then from there we really refined a lot ofthe copy to articulate and reflect that, you know, it wasn't just me. and it'snot just me doing a lot of the day-to-day work.

[00:10:01] And then, we refinesome of our services just post pandemic, understanding that a lot of people,aren't ready to make, uh, a massive tens of thousand solid dollars of, ofinvestment. And so pivoting around what accessible offerings could look likefor our clients was also a big priority with the, Rev.

[00:10:19] Sam Chlebowski: Along the lines of copy. Oneof the things that I really love about your new website is what you've chosento feature on your about page. I really love this page. It's like one of thebest about pages I've ever seen.

[00:10:31] and I'll link thisin the show notes, but one of the sections I really love that just totallystand out to me is the what makes us different Section, where it calls outclarity and confidence, long-term relationships and accessible designpractices.

[00:10:45] That was justawesome. It perfectly encapsulates what I already perceive that you do and Ithink communicates really. Clearly to your clients, who you are and what youstand for. Even just based on our couple of conversations together, I can seehow that really hits the nail

[00:10:59] in the head. It'sreally, really cool.

[00:11:01] Andi Dunn: Thank you. It, it's one of thosethings where we really had to revisit what clients actually gave a crap about.You know, like they really want to know that they have someone as a teammember. of course, the deliverables are important, but that's scope of work.That's not a relationship that you're building.

[00:11:16] That's not, as I'vementioned, that's not someone who's. In the thick of it on a day to day. So wereally try to feature aspects that, truly do make us unique and, and thingsthat we have heard, not just us internally kind of piping up ourselves, butthat clients specifically have mentioned is a huge differentiator cuz so many,of our clients come to us either after working with a designer or hack itthemselves and, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with either of those.

[00:11:42] at a certain point Ithink that they come to realize like, all right, it's time to level up. And asyou sort of evolve into a bigger business or you go to reach bigger goals, youkind of need, I'm not even gonna say a bigger team, cuz we're certainly not,but someone that feels like is on your team.

[00:11:57] Sam Chlebowski: I totally love the way thatyou think about this, and those relationships are so important, at least in myopinion, and it sounds like you would agree. I can't even put into words howimportant it is. Okay. Listening to your clients in a really deep way andmaking sure that everything you do is focused on what your clients are sayingand what you know future clients are expecting.

[00:12:18] That goes from thecopy on your website to the services that you provided. I know you hadmentioned that you refactored some things for the website after the pandemicand kind of had a shift in view of the way that you approach the marketing ofyour own business. when we talk about process with clients, how do you givethem that same sense of clarity, that same sense of understanding that you arepromoting, in

[00:12:38] your marketing

[00:12:39] Andi Dunn: There's a difference between beingan expert and being superior. we are certainly experts at what we do. You know,we. We really champion efficiency. That's something that we're really proud of.But I never want our relationship to feel like you don't know what you'redoing, so let us help you.

[00:12:54] It should be like,just as it says, like let's, let's get you some clarity and some confidence toshow up in the way that you really see yourself as an entrepreneur or as anon-profit leader.

[00:13:04] Sam Chlebowski: What are some of the thingsthat you do within your process of working with clients that these values alsoflow into? For example, how do you work with clients? What's your system forthat? To make sure that at every step of the way clients are informed, theyhave a say in what you're doing, what's your process for that?

[00:13:20] Andi Dunn: There are a couple of things thatwe've really started to implement and, and find over the years, namely, I wouldsay at onboarding, we have an honest conversation about. , their communicationpreferences. How do they give feedback best? Whether that's in written form,I'm the type of person that needs pen and paper and give me, you know, sometime to sit in a dark room and review something.

[00:13:43] Or do you wanna talkthrough it? Do you prefer reviewing things or reviewing our designs over Zoomand we can chat through it together or, You know, different, different pointsof contact as well. So we try to have those conversations that kick off so thatway it's truly reflective of the way that they want to work, not just themmeshing with how we work.

[00:14:04] And then, um,secondly, especially for our larger branding projects, we conduct kind of anaudience analysis for, established clients. So this looks like sending out somesurveys. individuals that, currently occupy their audience. And, and thisreally helps to inform our creative process and help bridge the gap between usgetting to know them and us getting to know how they operate because it's, it'snot coming from them.

[00:14:28] and also just as aside note, this really helps avoid any combating, once we get into the designphase, because we can. Explicitly so and so from the survey or you know, thegeneral receptivity of X, Y, or Z was shown in the survey. So we can kind ofrely on those responses instead of it just feeling like arbitrary decisions thatwe've made behind the curtain.

[00:14:52] So that's anotherthing. And then lastly I would say is just, transparency with deliverables. Sowe communicate a 48 hour turnaround time or response time. So if a clientemails us, it doesn't sit in our inbox for a week at a time. That's somethingthat I find personal grievances with when trying to reach out to just otherprofessionals.

[00:15:10] It's just annoying.Um, of course there are exceptions, you know, holidays, out of town, vacation,whatever. But, um, and then kind of corresponding with that, we, we create ashared Google calendar so you know exactly what phase we're in, you know, whendeliverables are gonna be due and we're, we stick to that pretty closely.

[00:15:28] Sam Chlebowski: I love the idea of the sharedGoogle Calendar view. That's a really interesting way to organize that andsomething I haven't heard of. . It also excites me because I know that there isimportance with one of the features that we've been building into motion.iowhere clients have a clear visual timeline of a project they know exactly whatstage of the project they're in, what might be required of them, and what youare currently working on, It's something that. Building into motion.io that wehaven't seen in any of the other project management tools where you can take aproject timeline and all of the individual tasks and things you or your teamare working on internally have that automatically populate a view for yourclient in a super easy to understand way, and you don't have to worry aboututilizing two separate tools. Updating things intwo separate places, so it was cool to hear about that and I'm excited to haveyou test out Motion.io.

[00:16:24] Andi Dunn: Yeah. It's, it's kind of a methodof accountability. for us, you know, for, for me kind of managing the project,but also for the clients. There should never be a point in time during theproject where they're wondering what we're doing.

[00:16:37] I know that this isa huge trust exercise, especially when we're talking about a larger investment,not just in money, but in time. , you're building a relationship with someone.And I would hate for that to go south eight weeks into a project or 10 weeksinto a project because you feel like you can't trust someone or you feel likeyou don't know what's happening behind the scenes.

[00:16:55] So all of that isjust in an effort to really bridge the gap with the relationship. But will, Imean, you know, some of 'em live and breathe by it, looking forward to thedates. Others, you know, they don't even open it. It just kind of depends onthe type of.

[00:17:09] Sam Chlebowski: I wanted to switch gears alittle bit and talk about sales and marketing. What are you currently doing formarketing and who runs this sort of sales and marketing processes for honey creative?

[00:17:20] Andi Dunn: Yeah, so, it's kind of ebbed andflowed and we honestly go through kind of seasonal, times as well, I think.Something that social media has done a really poor job at, I would say, is,feeling like every creative or every entrepreneur across the board has to be inthis constant sales mode of you need to be acquiring new clients 24 7, which.

[00:17:41] that's really notwhat traditional marketing is about. You know, like I'm absolutely advocatingfor content that feels approachable and, feels comfortable for you to, produce,but also like there are just times when we're do, when we're too busy to makethat a priority. So, as far as our approach, I will say most of our clientelecomes from referral.

[00:18:01] obviously knowingthat relationships are really important to us, they naturally kind of spreadthe good news, if you will, about, working with us and, that is both good andbad. Like, it's fantastic because people are, chatting about us and they reallybelieve in us, but it also tends to breed a lot of the same work.

[00:18:16] So we've recently, Iwould say within the last 18 months or so, started to dive deeper into seo blogwriting, I have a presence on, TikTok, and of course we have an Instagram andless on Facebook, but it's there. , you know, more just to have it. So obviouslysocial media channels aren't going anywhere and. I kind of use TikTok more asan exploration to find a community for me as a business owner and less of,client acquisition. I don't really wanna put any stress on that. There havebeen a couple of inquiries that come from it and, and kind of contentpartnerships as well, which is fantastic.

[00:18:50] But I didn't set outto get thousands of followers, even though that's kind of happened unknowingly,. I just wanted a space to feel weird and get, comfortable. not putting anypressure on it. So we do have a lot of priorities in the new year to do moreaggressive kind of Google ads campaign that are more targeted and strategic.

[00:19:07] But for right now,it adds and flows. It changes throughout the year.

[00:19:11] Sam Chlebowski: When you mentioned theseasonality of your business and being aware of it, that's something that hit aparticular nerve with me

[00:19:17] Andi Dunn: I would say we certainly have.Times. We do a lot of work in partnerships with, nonprofit organizations.Nonprofit. We do some academic stuff just with my relationship with theuniversity still. And I would say their calendar year looks very different tothe average business owner, which the average business owner is absolutely whatyou described, where they're like, January, let's go resolutions, hitting allthe things, and they really start to prioritize and.

[00:19:45] You know, likeexistential crisis type stuff where they're ready to rebrand or they're readyto prioritize, and the excitement of the new year has really kicked in versus Iwould say in the nonprofit world, January for us is very dead and very quiet,versus the end of the year, it's like sheer chaos.

[00:20:02] Everyone's trying toget out end of year giving campaign stuff, you know, impact. So right now, Iwould say like October, November is pretty hectic, but this year is actuallythe first year, that like as, an agency, we're not accepting any brandingclients in the month of December, which is very scary.

[00:20:20] Like, it's, it'shard to tell people yes, but not right now. but that's a huge goal that I've,I've really wanted to do for some time, you know, it's funny, I, I haven'treally ever worked in corporate America, or, I mean, obviously the, theschedule that I had prior to owning honey was very resemblant of a nine tofive, and that was pretty standard.

[00:20:40] But I don't thinkthat we give ourselves enough grace when creating our own schedule. And if youdon't wanna work the entire month of December, you don't have to you know,like if you want to end your work day at two o'clock, you don't have to. So, I am giving myself permission to kind of cool things off a little bit.

[00:20:56] And that's not tosay we're, we're gonna kind of take it as an internal month. And reallystrategize for January just so that we can kind of be prepared. But it's theholidays, you know, , like, as you said, it's kind of a wash. It's always beena wash, no one's very quick to respond, especiallyaround Christmas in particular.

[00:21:14] So, yeah, I, I thinkit's, it's a matter of working with clients and their seasonality and theirkind of calendar year, but also giving myself permission to say, Hey, you knowwhat, this is how we want to operate and how I wanted to create a business thatreflects my personal values and not working myself into the ground because itis so easy.

[00:21:32] I don't know if youfeel the same way, but like, because you're so passionate about it, I'm sure ina startup, like you just wanna work around the clock and it's easy to slip intothe 7:00 PM the 8:00 PM working time clock, and then. You wonder why come Fridayyou're exhausted, ? Well, it's because you kind of let boundaries eek out.

[00:21:50] Long story, longer - It's a combination of working with our clients, but also putting our foot downand, and really prioritizing internal operations too.

[00:21:59] Sam Chlebowski: I could not agree more. As abusiness owner, as somebody who is working in a small business, I've learnedfirsthand. It is so easy to say, oh, just one more thing, or just two more. Andthen those two more things can quickly stretch into the wee hours of the morning. And I also love the intentional approachto you saying, okay, we're not accepting new clients throughDecember.

[00:22:21] because we want togive ourselves a break. I, can totally appreciate how hard that is becauseit's, always hard to turn away business. But I do love your approach becauseeverybody needs a break sometimes, and when you're able to build up this waitlist, you're able to get through that.

[00:22:35] Andi Dunn: Right. we'll see. I'll let you knowhow it goes. if come mid-December, I'm freaking out then. Then I'll follow up.

[00:22:42] Sam Chlebowski: Oh yeah. I mean, I'm sure youguys are just fine. You're very successful doing all of the right things, butwe'll have you back on for a follow up episode if you'd like to when that timecomes.

[00:22:53] Andi Dunn: Yeah and you know,I, I really used to be, So cautious and very aware of kind of the, the leadsthat are coming in. And I think now it's not necessarily that I stress any lessabout it, it's just

[00:23:08] my motivation forstressing about it is through caring and not overwhelmed to where I feel like Ican't make a decision or I can't do anything because that's theonly thing that I'm focused on.

[00:23:19] Sam Chlebowski: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , what'syour process for managing leads? Are you using a crm? How are they coming inthrough your website?

[00:23:25] Andi Dunn: Yeah. So, so they, they fill out acontact form, right? Pretty standard through the website, or if it's areferral, they'll send a direct email and kind of cc the, the person thatreferred them. And then

[00:23:36] I do like to have aninitial conversation, a consult call with you will, and mostly That's To hearwhat their goals are, but also.

[00:23:43] To see if there's aconnection like that to me is, is much more valuable than, you know, the, thepotential income or the project itself or what have you. I want them to feelgood about it and, and usually being face-to-face in a Zoom or even over thephone, can help provide a lot of that context versus just reading in an email andsaying, Nope, or, yep.

[00:24:02] I've acceptedprojects that I was kind of surprised by after having a face-to. and I'vedeclined projects that I was surprised by because of the face-to-face. There'sreally not a, a math or science behind it. I would probably fail if it were it's kind of a, agut feeling or a gut instinct.

[00:24:17] Sam Chlebowski: And I think for designbusinesses it's especially important to screen your clients. And this issomething that has come up on a couple conversations I've had recently becauseclients who you don't screen that aren't a good fit can be a huge time suckwithin your business.

[00:24:32] then again, it canbe really uncomfortable, at least at first to have to turn down business. Butyou gotta see the forest from the trees and know that in the long. It is what'sbest to help your growth and help you all succeed. Now, people who are a goodfit, you should be working to get in front of as many of those ideal types ofclients as you can.

[00:24:52] And I know youmentioned some strategies for that, that you are using, that you're lookingto deploy in the new year. But if somebody's not a good fit, it's nobody's fault.Why try and fit a square peg into a round hole with somebody that is not goingto fit your process just because you want some revenue from that client?

[00:25:11] I don't think that'san optimal way to run a business, and frankly, it's just not good foranybody.

[00:25:15] Andi Dunn: Right. Exactly. I've definitelybeen burned by the,

[00:25:19] allure. Sexiness of,of

[00:25:21] either a project orjust, you know, the,

[00:25:23] the straight upincome. there's always that to keep in mind, but

[00:25:25] in those times, likeI, I had inclinations, like I knew that it wasn't gonna be a good fit. Andthen, you know, when it kind of hit the fan and those scenarios have been veryfew and far between.

[00:25:35] But I always go backand think, man, like there were so, so many red flags, Andy, like, what , whatwere you doing? What were you thinking? Like you should have known.

[00:25:43] Sam Chlebowski: So before we sign off here, Ijust have a couple of more questions that I want to ask. One fun one, and thenone more work related one. So for the first one, outside of work, what are youpassionate about?

[00:25:54] Andi Dunn: I've actually been a personaltrainer slash fitness instructor longer than I've been a designer, which isfunny. So, I've been in the fitness space for 13 years now. super passionateabout that. I still actually do it to this day. I, I just taught a class thismorning.

[00:26:10] It just, Because,you know, I, I, we're all a remote team, so I, you know, I tend to sit behindmy computer most of the day in a very stationary position. So teaching classhelps me, like, get in front of actual people and have some social skills stillintact. so that's something that I've, I've always been passionate and it'svery complimentary to what I do.

[00:26:29] It's almost like amoving meditation. and prioritizing that I think makes me a better creative. Sothey're very different spaces, but I think they share a lot of similarities. Ilove to hike. I've got two dogs, so, you know, we, we try to get outside quitea bit. We take daily walks, you know, that's again, like more of the, themoving meditation type idea.

[00:26:47] I love to read. Ialways have kind of annual reading goals Yeah, I like to cook and bake a lot.So pretty standard stuff. I don't know if there's anything like, you know,non-traditional as far as the hobby is concerned, but, but yeah.

[00:27:01] Sam Chlebowski: And then finally for thebusiness. What's new? What's exciting? What are you working on at HoneyCreative that listeners should

[00:27:08] know about?

[00:27:08] Andi Dunn: Yeah. So right now we're actuallyin the works or in the process of creating, we call it a resource libraryinternally, so it's called waggle and. Waggle is actually a dance that beads doto communicate when they found a really great source of nectar. So that's wherethe name comes from.

[00:27:24] It's all very beerelated . and really this is just, not anything that we're trying to get richquick on or, you know, create just another course for someone to have to gothrough. It really is to serve the clients that maybe are, just outside of ourbudget. are relatively new in their business.

[00:27:41] So this is somethingthat we'll kind of touch on a lot of, uh, the bigger picture stuff. So someideas around brain strategy, like the, the basics of design for people that areusing Canva, either independently on their own or as a team just trying to makeit work and accessibility practices. So we're really trying to advocate, um,for, for all of our clients to take advantage.

[00:28:03] Cuz you know, in theworld of design, with more tools like Canva, it's ever important that clientsfeel empowered and that they know how to use it and aren't, you know,embarrassed or,

[00:28:12] that's somethinglike, oh my stuff is all over

[00:28:14] the place. Like, Idon't like it. So trying to encourage them and feel like they can take controlof themselves cuz

[00:28:20] I never want clientsto feel like we're just holding all the keys to the castle. Like they shouldreally feel like they can do, maybe not do exactly what we do , because thenthat would put us out of, some business, but they feel like they can takeownership of, of what their brand is and who it will become.

[00:28:34] Sam Chlebowski: Absolutely incredible initiative,and I had. Out waggle before this call. It's chock full of a ton of knowledgeand also super, super affordable. I was really impressed.

[00:28:45] Andi Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean that, Like Isaid, it's not anything that we're gonna be pricing ourselves out of, but thereal goal was just trying to make. Information and knowledge more ready forclients that aren't necessarily ready to take the next step with us.

[00:28:58] Sam Chlebowski: I also wanted to mention thatI may be the one person who you'll talk to that understands the wagglereference.

[00:29:05] Growing up at myparents' house in Pennsylvania, my brother, he you know, lives inVermont. He does all this crazy farming and stuff, but he was raising bees, uh,at our house. So I learneda lot about bees - fascinating creatures. Apparently they are the only animalthat has a system of measurement. I don't know if you know this as well, butbees, when they are sizing up a new hive, theyconnect each other from end to end and basically measure the length of the space that they'rein to make sure that the hivecan fit.

[00:29:32] Andi Dunn: Wow. That's cool.

[00:29:34] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah, absolutely fascinatingcreatures and I also love the

[00:29:38] honey, but shout outPete for teaching me about bees.

[00:29:41] Andi Dunn: Yep. Yep. we're all about the puns.And that's actually like we mentioned that as a, a big green flag for when aclient willingly uses a, bee or a honey pun cuz that's so much of our ethos. weinclude, a really, really corny dad joke at the end of all of our emailnewsletters. So that's something that, you know, like keeping it lighthearted.

[00:29:58] We never wanna takeourselves too seriously.

[00:30:00] Sam Chlebowski: I love it. I love it. So,Andy, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your time, your expertise andyour story. Really, really appreciate it. We'll put links to Andy's website, Honeycreative’s social channels, as well as the waggle resource center as links inthe show notes for this episode.

[00:30:17] Until then, this hasbeen another great episode of designing growth. Take care of everybody and talkto you soon.