Bootstrapping the Path to Four Successful Businesses

[00:00:00] Sam Chlebowski: Where do you see the future of
your various businesses going? Where are you wanting to invest your time the
most over the next year?

[00:00:09] Payton Clark Smith: I’ve got a couple
different priorities. I certainly want to grow my businesses. But my highest
priority has always been like, I want to give my people a place to work always
because I love working with them.

[00:00:23] And so that has been
a worry. And people have asked me and commented about this, like, oh, you know,
your launched on these businesses. Are you gonna phase out your agency? And I
don’t, ever plan to, not, unless I have a place for all my team to land,
whether that’s, you know, having them full-time on my, my other products or
things.

[00:00:39] In the short term,
we are trying to grow Semflow, which is our SaaS. We’re trying to grow that as
quickly as possible and I would love to see that get acquired. But either way,
I don’t want to ever get more busy. I don’t ever wanna have to spend more time
away from my kids or my family, I couldn’t ask for a whole lot more right now,
and I have to constantly remind myself that because know, I wake up every
morning, I’m like, oh, I just wanna take over the world today, and I want to be
putting out content and reaching millions and doing all this stuff. And then I have
to remind myself that’s not really what I want. What I really want is, I’ve got
right now.

[00:01:12] Sam Chlebowski: Happy Thursday everybody, and
welcome back to Designing Growth. My name is Sam Chlebowski, host of this
podcast and one of three co-founders at Motion.io. Today on the podcast, I am
very excited to have Payton Smith with us. Payton is a web designer and
entrepreneur and a founder of three different six figure businesses.

[00:01:42] Peyton runs an
agency — Pait Digital; an education platform — which is PaitPro and an SEO course
which talks all about SEO and Webflow. But in addition to that, and what you
were actually just talking to me a little before we hit the record button here,
is that you also just released a SaaS product that helps web developers with SEO,
and it integrates directly in Webflow.

[00:02:03] My first question is
just a quick, you know, how are you doing today? And then I do want to get
right into talking about this SaaS product that you’ve released, because that
sounds really cool. And I would love to learn more about this.

[00:02:13] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah. Absolutely. Well,
thank you for having me. it’s always fun just to come in and, talk to somebody
that knows about my life. Right. Kind of what we do is, uh, it’s unique and
it’s fun and, yeah, like you said, you know, we just launched this SaaS here.
It’s been a couple months now. But that’s one thing that I love about my job as
a web designer, is you pretty much have the skills and experience to chase any
opportunity or idea, right?

[00:02:38] Because we spend so
much of our time building our clients’ businesses, started as a web designer
and then I decided I need to learn seo. And then along the way you learn
copywriting and you learn how to communicate with people. And then, All of a
sudden, I, I reached a point where I was like, Hey, I wanna, I wanna maybe
build a product of my own so I can use my expertise and experience and also my
team to build this up.

[00:02:59] And so that’s kind
how this SaaS product started. We are a, webflow exclusive agency and we do a
lot of seo. And so I felt like that was the perfect product for us to build It
didn’t exist in the webflow. World. There was no sort of yos type plugin for webflow.
And so we built it out and it’s been a whirlwind of, you know, making every
mistake in the book just because I have no experience in the SAS world, but
also it’s just been so exciting to have a product of my own.

[00:03:29] it’s so fun. And we,
uh, yeah, we’ve grown to, I think we’ve had over a thousand downloads now.
We’ve got, know, awesome feedback from people. We’re constantly reiterating and
trying to improve this thing, but it’s been my favorite thing that I’ve ever
built by far.

[00:03:43] Sam Chlebowski: That is amazing. And you
actually touched on,

[00:03:46] part of what I was
gonna ask with what yos is to WordPress, is this like the sort of, yo, for lack
of better words for Webflow, and I love that you a need. Within something that
you were doing, but also something that your customers needed and went for it.

[00:04:02] I mean, that is like
product development 1 0 1. You find that hair on fire problem and you go and
solve it. It sounds like, you all have, you know, reached a enormous amount of
success with this product already. With the product, is it a plugin? Is it a
download? are you currently charging for it?

[00:04:18] How, how does that
all working?

[00:04:19] Payton Clark Smith: We are. Yep. So it is a
Google Chrome extension currently that is, The only way to have this sort of
software that works inside of Webflow. And so, you download it on the Google
Chrome store. It is a subscription. It’s $15 a month. Um, it has a free trial,
but yeah, once you download that Chrome plugin, and shows up right inside the
Webflow designer.

[00:04:42] So you can’t tell
that it’s not native. It, matches web flow’s, brand and style, and, it’s really
slick. yeah, We’ve got a lot of people that were early adopters and just
selected to go with an annual plan and, that is so cool to have people that
support this type of adventure that I’ve been on cause I just don’t know what
I’m doing.

[00:05:01] Right. And, you
know, you get these early adopters that are willing to try the product, give
you feedback, they’re patient when things don’t work. But over the past couple
months we’ve really kind of got it dialed in and it has grown like a wildfire.
And I think it’s for that very reason that you said it.

[00:05:15] We didn’t go into
this thinking, how can we make a product that makes us money? But it was just a
solution that every day I wished I had. And so I almost had this mentality of
even if nobody else uses this, I’m gonna love it. And that was enough for me to
pursue it. I think that that approach has really paid off.

[00:05:30] Sam Chlebowski: that story. I think you’ve
heard it. So many times before when it comes to software development, where
people build tools cuz it’s things that they wanted a solution to, even for
their own business, if nothing else. And immediately there’s people there that,

[00:05:45] find value in it and
are willing to

[00:05:46] become early
adopters.

[00:05:48] Put up with, you
maybe

[00:05:49] not having a hundred
percent of the features, the occasional bug, but because the core of the
product is providing so much value, you can improve on it. You iterate it over
time and you make it into this perfect tool for this subset of people. One
question I wanted to ask you I think that there’s probably a lot of people who
listen to this podcast that are interested in software development, they’re
interested in building things.

[00:06:11] There’s so many
different options now. Between all of the no-code options, and all of the
different ways to build software these days. How did you go about the process
of starting to build this? Did you hire developers? Did you use, a certain
platform to build it yourself?

[00:06:27] What did that
process look like when you said, Hey, we’re ready to build this?

[00:06:30] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah, that’s really where
my experience as a web designer. Really came into play is I had met so many
awesome, talented people. And so the way that I found my developer, cuz
certainly like, I’m not, smart enough to have developed this tool on my own.
you know, I just threw a message out in my, team, slack channel and said, does
anybody know a good developer? And we connected it was an interesting project
early on because there’s really no documentation.

[00:06:54] About how to build
this type of tool that integrates with Webflow. it wasn’t all cut and paste
like a lot of development projects are, and so I had this very rough design of
what I wanted it to look like, but we were all learning together certainly
large time investment.

[00:07:09] Definitely a large
financial investment, but in kind of the grand scheme of things. Looking at
this tool where it’s at, I’m like, man, it only took maybe six months to build.
the financial investment might have seemed like a lot up front, but within, the
first two months we made our money back and then it’s really just pure cash
flow that we can throw right back into the tool to improve it.

[00:07:30] And so it really has
been like the ideal process, pretty quick to market. Pretty quick to become
profitable and then cash flow to reinvest and improve it. that cycle is just, I
mean, like, it just compounds and, and it’s like a snowball, the more users you
get, the more funds you have and feedback you have to improve it, and it’s just
faster and faster.

[00:07:51] Asked her.

[00:07:51] Sam Chlebowski: It’s amazing

[00:07:52] how long has it been
publicly available?

[00:07:54] Payton Clark Smith: So I think we launched our
beta in like very end of November, early December. and, quite frankly, we
didn’t really do. Any marketing, I put out a YouTube video that just said, Hey,
like, here’s a little tool that we built. Check it out.

[00:08:09] And it’s pretty much
been word of mouth. We’ve got a few affiliates, but that really proved market
fit there, that it just, grew on its own. only in these past couple weeks have
we started truly advertising, pumping out content, working closely with our
affiliates. And so, The growth really accelerate even over the last two weeks,
which has been really exciting to see.

[00:08:29] Sam Chlebowski: so how big is the team on
that? Is it still just you and the one developer, or have you brought on other
people to assist in, you know, aspects of the

[00:08:38] product, marketing,
customer success?

[00:08:40] what’s that look
like currently?

[00:08:41] Payton Clark Smith: Mm-hmm. think because this
thing is so bootstrapped, I’ve just kind of used what I had available. So it’s,
The developer and myself. And before this I was very much out of design, right?
I was more in like a managerial, like higher level type stuff. But I’ve really
loved designing this. So I’ve designed the entire thing on my own.

[00:08:59] and then we have
that SEO manager introduced me to my developer. He’s. Super talented and so he
has kind of been a go-between just to give feedback, testing he’s brought a ton
of value to that. And then I’ve got my project manager, I mean, I call him a
project manager.

[00:09:15] He’s kind of just my
right hand and he has kind of just filled in where needed. He’s filled in
support request, he’s. Given feedback, he’s tested the product. Um, and so
that’s kind of our immediate team. And then I have kind of my secondary team
where I’ve got, a gal who manages all of our affiliates now, and she is an
awesome communicator.

[00:09:35] And so we’re
starting to bring in more kind of part-time roles like that that we’re growing,
but not, overreaching or overstepping in terms of like how big our team needs
to be because. These types of SaaS products. That’s what’s so great about ’em,
is you can have super lean, tiny team and still make a huge impact.

[00:09:52] Sam Chlebowski: I mean, I love it and I love
bootstrapping something, keeping it nice and lean. Our team right now is just
me and my two co-founders. Then we have one other, developer that

[00:10:01] works with us and

[00:10:03] honestly, it’ll
probably stay that way for a little bit longer until we’re really ready to kind
of turn on the gas. And it seems like, you are just right about at that stage
where you are, kind of scaling things up and that’s exciting. I also think too,
like your methodology behind product development and bootstrapping this and
keeping it super lean is a lot of what I share.

[00:10:23] One thing that stood
out to me, and one thing I actually just wanted to pick your brain about, even
if it’s just for like my own personal insights, your affiliate program, how did
you shape that and what does that look like? Like what’s working well, with
your affiliate program? Where do you see the value there?

[00:10:39] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah, so I didn’t have a
whole lot of knowledge behind what makes a great affiliate program, and the one
thing that I wanted to. Do is make sure that it was extremely generous, guess
the two most important things is that they like and believe in the product.

[00:10:53] That makes it much
easier to promote and then that you’ve got generous commissions, right? If, if
somebody’s getting five bucks, 10 bucks, one time commission, nobody’s gonna
wanna push that. And so we set up a recurring lifetime commission. And we just
did this all through, a software, I think it’s called Reward Full, that works
with Stripe.

[00:11:11] And so yeah, I just
threw it out there and, didn’t promote it, didn’t ask anyone to be an affiliate
really. I just, had that page on our side and, people quickly signing up. We
didn’t do any follow up with our affiliates until just recently when I, got
somebody to fill that role of, Hey, you know, you’re a new affiliate, here’s.

[00:11:27] a content package of
things you can post will help you with YouTube scripts, like different things
like that to encourage them to take action once they become an affiliate. And
actually it’s funny that you asked that because just this morning I came across
a Google ad promoting Selo from one of our affiliates and I’m like, cool,
People are even running paid promotions to push this thing.

[00:11:48] And, all comes back
to generous commissions and helping people feel like they’re in a way, kind of
a, co-owner in this, that they benefit as much as we do.

[00:11:56] Sam Chlebowski: There were two things in
particular that you shared there I think in some ways seem obvious like, oh of
course this would work for an affiliate program, but really is not in a lot of
ways the first thing you mentioned, the generosity. I think that that is a big
piece that so many affiliate programs miss out on.

[00:12:13] a lot of affiliate
programs where it’s like, oh, refer X number of people and get a t-shirt, get a
sweatshirt. what people really want at the end of the day is, a commission for
taking that time out of their day to produce that content, to send someone your
way especially to a tool that they believe in.

[00:12:29] you know, they do
want monetary value if you’re not doing that and you’re kind of tentative to do
that, It’s not gonna work I think that people are sometimes afraid of like, oh,
well if I’m giving commissions for this product, especially something as
generous as a lifetime commission, it cuts into the value and I can never get a
positive return on that.

[00:12:47] but to me it’s all
about your lifetime value that customer that they refer? And as long as you’ve
done the math here’s how much I profit minus the cost of paying out this
commission if, that math works, you can really provide a win-win for everybody.

[00:13:02] The second piece was
providing all of that information to the affiliates. That’s something I’ve
never done that I think is a phenomenal idea. I think you said like, here’s how
you can create YouTube scripts. Here’s, assets you can use to promote the
product. I love that the easier that you can make it for somebody to take that
time out of their day and create these things happier everybody’s gonna be.

[00:13:22] Payton Clark Smith: Absolutely. you Know, you
hit it right on the head where it’s just that win-win scenario, and if you can
create that, then everybody feels good and, I actually learned this lesson here
recently, I reached out to somebody that has a, course that fits perfectly in
my content, and it’s not a course that I ever planned on making.

[00:13:38] And so I reached out
and said, I’d love to be an affiliate. I’d love to promote this. Like I, I took
the course, it’s great, and this person responded and said, yeah, you know, we
can give you a 10% one-time commission. And I just was kind of put off by that.
But what I didn’t realize is, The way that this course in business was run,
their margins were so slim they couldn’t afford to give any more than 10%.

[00:14:00] And so first off,
like I shouldn’t have been so I guess surprised or put off by that. But I very
quickly learned that like, Hey, I wanna build a business that the margins are a
lot larger. then if I have kind of this mentality of abundance where. Rather than
trying to pocket every dime that this generates, putting everything back into
my affiliates back into improving the tool, then you’re more focused on the
growth of the product and the community around it, rather than just your own
cash flow.

[00:14:27] And, you know, I, I
think being generous with your affiliates. makes it a no-brainer. And then
after they sign up, you deliver ’em this huge package of, Hey, just copy and
paste this and post it on Instagram. don’t even have to do the work. It’s like,
who wouldn’t wanna be part of this? And seems to be working so far.

[00:14:44] pretty good for us.

[00:14:45] Sam Chlebowski: If the dollars make sense, the
cents make dollars.

[00:14:47] Payton Clark Smith: I love it.

[00:14:48] Sam Chlebowski: of the things I wanted to do
here too is just like run it back a little bit and talk about, how you got here
in the first place. So I know that you have, these three businesses and then
you’ve just released this SAS product. You have your YouTube channel, was the
foundation, all of that, your agency.

[00:15:05] Payton Clark Smith: It was, yep. When I
started out, I was a college student that school and I was trying to figure out
what I wanted to do. I had a summer sales job and. just wasn’t getting any
traction in school and, and I finally kind of gave into the fact that I’ve
always been creative and like designing.

[00:15:21] Started designing
logos, then websites and started bringing on a couple clients, which were
mostly just like friends and family, which is how a lot of us start. And I got
married the end of college and luckily my wife kind of helped drag me through
the finish line of, graduating college.

[00:15:37] But by that point I
had. A few clients and I thought I was hot stuff cuz I was making money on my
own. And I just said, I, I don’t want to go get a normal job, I just want to
dive right into this. And so we lived poor for at least the first year, two
years of marriage. But it just started to gain traction.

[00:15:52] you know, I was
spending of the money that I made aside from what we needed to survive on
courses and, education and mentors. And I was reading. Every book that I could
get my hands on, and I was watching every YouTube video I could, and all of
that led to, hey, like charge more for your websites and start learning and
charging for seo.

[00:16:10] And all of a sudden
I was overwhelmed with the work. And so I hired people. I started hiring a
designer and I hired my SEO manager who already had an SEO team trained up, and
it just moved so fast while at the time it felt like, man, like I am just
hustling every day and nothing’s happened.

[00:16:27] And then all of a
sudden, you know, six months, 12 months later, I’ve got a team around me. And,
from there, man, it’s like once you get that team to a lot of the busy work and
the work that burns through your creative energy, was able to take a step back
and say, wanna start creating YouTube content.

[00:16:44] And then people
started asking me how I did what I do. And so I started taking consulting
calls, which gave me the content to create a course. And, and it all just kind
of, presented itself to me as, the timing was right. And, that’s exactly what
happened with the SAS product as well. felt like they just built on top of each
other.

[00:17:02] And, and one thing
that we don’t have to. Get into too deep. But this was kind of a defining
moment in my life that really helped me decide where I wanna spend my time. And
my effort was at the end of 2021, I was diagnosed with cancer, Hodgkin
lymphoma. And so quickly I found myself in the middle of chemotherapy and I was
just deathly sick and I couldn’t work for six months.

[00:17:25] And so I had to.
Rely on my team members and my systems and I couldn’t create content. And I
spent six months with whatever energy I had, just like thinking, what am I
gonna do when I’m back on my feet? And about seven months later, I finished
chemo. Took me a few more months kind of get my energy back, and then I just
hit it as hard as I could.

[00:17:46] We launched our
SaaS, I launched my membership. And I did all of that while trying to only work
about half a day so I could spend more time with my family. And that was just
like the critical turning point where I felt like I found the perfect balance
to get everything done that I wanted, and also just enjoy life and not work
myself to death like I was before that time.

[00:18:05] Sam Chlebowski: Man, first of all, I wanna say
congratulations. to go through all of that and come out on the other side. just
hearing that brings me to tears, man. And I imagined like this had to be
terrifying in the middle of a pandemic.

[00:18:17] to also have cancer
and also be. Worried about your business and thinking about your business, but
to come out of that on the other side with this amazing mindset that is
basically like, okay, I do want to grow. I do want to work, but how do I do
these things in a way that doesn’t burn me out and allows me to spend more time
with the people that I love the most?

[00:18:40] that mindset is
like, it’s. Amazing. It’s amazing to hear man.

[00:18:45] Payton Clark Smith: Well, thank you. Yeah. You
I think anybody could say this about our trials, right? Like if you let ’em,
they make you better. and I’m certainly grateful for the things that I learned,
especially that balance of, life, right? Like Work’s always gonna be there.
Money’s always gonna be there.

[00:19:00] you can, chase those
things every day of your life. But, you know, I’ve, got two little boys, and
they’re never gonna be this age again. And I think I felt so robbed during that
time of, chemo that I just, didn’t feel good enough to spend good time with
them. so when I got back, I just told myself like, I’m never gonna say no.

[00:19:15] Right? Like, I’m
never gonna say no to. What they want to do. And so it doesn’t matter if I’ve
got a huge launch day or I’ve got, you know, important calls or whatever. It’s
like, yesterday we went bowling in the middle of the day and you know, they’re
always knocking on my door wanting to do a, light saber battle or whatever it
is they want to do.

[00:19:30] I’m like, yeah, like
I can only do this today, but I can work when you are out of the house and in
college. that’s always gonna be there. And so, That mentality has, definitely
just made work more enjoyable. Cause I do what I can, knowing that that’s
really not as important as we all make it out to be.

[00:19:46] Sam Chlebowski: It’s especially really great
advice for me, in particular hearing this because how old are your boys?

[00:19:51] Payton Clark Smith: Oliver just turned five
and Atticus is two.

[00:19:54] Sam Chlebowski: Very cool. we just had our
first child in January,

[00:19:58] um,

[00:19:59] So it’s like some of
these things and when I’m kind of in the middle of it right now, launching this
company, this SAS product, it’s a really great reminder for me in a really
powerful reminder for me in a lot of ways to Spend the time and that work is
always gonna be there.

[00:20:14] You can always work
longer, you can always work later. it’s never gonna end. But you know what will
end is the time that you have with your family when they’re in the house and
your kids are growing up So thank you

[00:20:25] Payton Clark Smith: Yeah, man, no problem.
It’s, uh, pretty cool life that we get to live, that we can work on our
computers and, be around, and so we might as well take advantage of that,
right.

[00:20:32] Sam Chlebowski: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:33] One of the things I
wanted to circle back around on and talk about, cuz you had mentioned, you
know, as part of this story, when you were in the hospital recovering, you had
to really lean on your team and. I wanted to ask you, because I think that this
is something that a lot of other business owners struggle with.

[00:20:49] How did you go about
developing

[00:20:51] those processes,
developing those systems that allowed your team to operate autonomously without
you and be able to keep the trains running on time, even if you weren’t there?

[00:21:03] Payton Clark Smith: That’s an awesome
question. I would say that that has been a weak point. In my growth and, my
leadership and I have been extremely lucky to have awesome people on my team. I
think, first and foremost, I would say that it’s not due to that I did, that
being said, trusting in, people and kind of giving them the framework to
succeed, but then also letting them go.

[00:21:27] And fail and putting
them in situations where, hey, like, you’ve gotta meet with this client because
I’m, I’m in the hospital today. And, people step up. People step up when you
give them those opportunities and when you trust them. I think also again, kind
of going back to that, to be generous and in the way that you pay people. There
have been times where that’s burnt me, but generally speaking, that has always
paid off. Like, don’t cheap out on people. If anything, you should overpay
people and, try to, motivate them to work up to that level. those things just,
they seem to work out in your favor, right?

[00:21:59] Because people are
more motivated, they want to do more for you. And like I said, I’ve been really
fortunate to have people that I hired kind of first try and they just worked
out. And I know that doesn’t always happen, but also I think so much of. the
quality of your people kind of falls back on you.

[00:22:14] And it’s a
reflection of you in a lot of ways. And, think I’ve learned a lot along the
way, but man, you’ve gotta get people around you cuz you can’t do it all on
your own.

[00:22:22] Sam Chlebowski: of your points there that if
you’re generous, people will be generous in return. That’s something I totally
subscribe to. , if you are generous with your employees, you’re paying them
well. They feel like you are really helping them, and they in return are really
have your back.

[00:22:37] They’re gonna be the
ones that when something comes up, not saying that, you need to make people
work all hours of the night and stuff like that, but when something does come
up, They’re gonna be the one willing to step up and get it done for you if
you’re not able to. And they’re the ones who stop thinking like employees and
start thinking like owners, where they are saying to themselves, how can we
make this better?

[00:22:59] How can we improve this
product? How can we make our customers happier? And those types of people, when
you can surround yourself with them, are just invaluable in my opinion.

[00:23:08] Payton Clark Smith: Absolutely, man. people
are more talented than, we give them credit for. And I think that’s one of my
weaknesses especially early on, I thought, I can’t trust them to do this. Like
I’ve just gotta do it myself. And most of the time when you step back and let
them do it, They’ll surprise you and do it better than even you could, and you
just gotta give ’em that chance.

[00:23:24] Sam Chlebowski: So with all of this, where do
you see the future of, your various businesses and all of this stuff going?
Where are you wanting to invest your time the most over the next year?

[00:23:36] Payton Clark Smith: I’ve got a couple
different priorities. I certainly want to grow my businesses that could be
classified more as an asset, right? My SaaS company, things like that that
maybe aren’t so reliant on people because those are typically the things that
are more properly set up for an exit. But my highest priority has always been wanting
to give my people a place to work always because I love working with them.

[00:24:02] And so that has been
worry. And people have asked me and commented about this, like “oh, you know,
your launched on these businesses. Are you gonna phase out your agency?” And I
don’t ever plan to, not unless I have a place for all my team to land —
whether that’s, you know, having them full-time on my, other products or
things.

[00:24:19] And so think I’ll
try to maintain that balance in the short term, we are trying to grow Semflow,
which is our SaaS. We’re trying to grow that as quickly as possible and I would
love to see that get acquired,

[00:24:30] I don’t know if the
cards, but, but either way, I don’t want to ever get more busy. don’t ever
wanna have to spend more time away from my kids or my family, I couldn’t ask
for a whole lot more right now, and I have to constantly remind myself that
because know, I wake up every morning, I’m like, oh, I just wanna take over the
world today, and I wanna, be putting out content and reaching millions and
doing all this stuff. And then have to remind myself that’s not really what I
want. What I really want is, I’ve got right now.

[00:24:56] And, I’ll try to
keep reminding myself that as much as possible because, talked about before,
like the most important phases of life right now. And so, I don’t really care
where these businesses go as long as I feel good about my efforts in them.

[00:25:08] Sam Chlebowski: Amazing. So Payton, thank you
so much for your time. This has been an awesome chat and quite honestly,
incredibly inspiring and insightful for me, personally. So thank you again for
your time. Wanna wrap it up here with two final questions? One business one,
one fun, one first question.

[00:25:24] If people want to
learn more about you and the work that you are doing, where should they go?

[00:25:29] Payton Clark Smith: Best place to find me is
on YouTube @paytonclarksmith. That’s where I am the most active. I have also
been trying to be a little bit better on Instagram my handle is the same —
@paytonclarksmith. I’m trying to be better at responding to individual
messages, dms, emails.

[00:25:45] Because I had a lot
of great people that, uh, were willing to do that for me early on. So yeah,
hope y’all can find me and I can some value.

[00:25:51] Sam Chlebowski: Amazing. And we will put links
to all of those things in the show notes of this episode. And now for the fun
one. What are some of your favorite all-time movies and TV shows?

[00:26:01] Payton Clark Smith: Ooh, that is a great
question. My wife and I, we, we love to watch lot of tv, but our favorite TV
show would definitely have to be how I Met Your Mother. That is an all-time
favorite of ours.

[00:26:13] And then movies, Uh,
recent movies.

[00:26:17] I loved Top Gun
Maverick that is an awesome movie. I would say my all-time favorite would have
to be the Dark Night. Those Batman movies are as good as they get.

[00:26:29] Sam Chlebowski: The dark night when those
movies came out, I think I must have been probably in high school, maybe but I
loved those movies, man. Christopher Nolan ever decided that he wanted to come
back and direct another Batman movie, or really any Superman movie, I would be
all over it.

[00:26:44] Payton Clark Smith: Oh yeah, dude, those were
so good. And, and those are ones that I could watch. Over and over again and
never get sick of ’em.

[00:26:49] Sam Chlebowski: and the newest one. You know,
I thought it was good, but it didn’t really encapsulate that like same energy
as, I’ll call it the original trilogy. Now we’re talking about it like it’s
Star Wars or fine wine, but, uh, yeah.

[00:27:01] Payton Clark Smith: I don’t ever see myself
liking a, a superhero movie or, definitely not a Batman movie more than those,
so.

[00:27:07] Sam Chlebowski: Hey, you got somebody on your
side here too because I fully agree.

[00:27:10] Payton Clark Smith: Awesome. Well man, yeah, thanks
again for having me. This has been fun to chat and I’d love to be on another
time.

[00:27:14] Sam Chlebowski: Fantastic. Yeah, we’ll
definitely have you on again in the future and get an update about all of the
things that you’re doing and how things are going. So thank you so much
everybody. If you enjoyed this episode of Designing Growth, we would love it if
you went ahead on Apple or Spotify and left us a five-star review.

[00:27:31] Until next time,
everybody, my name is Sam Chlebowski, host of Designing Growth. Have fun, good
luck, and go crush it.